50kph winds are tough for sure, but that doesn’t imply or say anything about yaw angle.
here is the article I was thinking about:
give that a read.
Correct…and here is the full Mavic study that is referenced in the ST article.
http://engineerstalk.mavic.com/en/yaw-angle-measurement-in-real-conditions-on-kona-ironman-course/
I can’t get the graphs to load but see summary below:
Kona (extreme crosswind conditions)
- 70% of yaw angles are below +/- 10*
- Only 6% of yaw angles are above 20%
Annecy, France (Low wind conditions)
- 100% of yaw angles are below +/- 10*
- 82% are below +/- 4*
good stuff
yeah that Kona segment E in Mavic study looks familiar. I ride with a triathlete that has age group raced at Kona on and off since 2000. We’ve got heat but without the humidity, she says the wind is similar to Kona.
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Firstly, it is fact. Do some research.
Secondly, I have no idea where you derived your implications from. The only implication, had you read what I said, is that position means everything. If the rider has to reach out with straight arms to ride an aero bike, the aero-ness of that bike is totally negated (as compared with a better position on an endurance bike).
It makes absolutely zero sense to look at the aero-ness of a bike, without a rider.
Just like it makes zero sense to count grams on a climbing bike, when those grams should be taken in context of bike AND rider weight combined.
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An aero road bike will make a difference if you’re riding off the front of crits and holding over 40km/h OR competing in the road bike TT class. Other than that it’s not going to make much of a difference.
Aero always makes a difference. I don’t know why some people try to deny it. I see some guys in my club that do everything wrong aero-wise. They are leaving a tremendous amount of watts on the table and they are usually off the back.
Here are some figures just off the top of my head from what I’ve read in the past. Before anyone nit-picks it apart, it is a ballpark estimate. We are talking group ride attack and sprint speeds
aero road helmet… 10 watts
tight race fit jersey and kit … 15 watts
good aero positioning … 20 watts
50mm + deep aero wheels … 20 watts
aero frame … 10 watts
aero handlebar … 5 watts
integrated cables … 3 watts
total … 83 watts doing everything right
If you have no aero game and you have a flappy jersey, or flappy wind jacket you are probably at a 100+ watt disadvantage. Even if you don’t buy an aero bike, you can still do all the other stuff on a relatively smaller budget and get most of the way there.
My guess is that even in pace lines you might be saving 15-20+ watts. It’s not nothing. If your ftp is 200, you are saving 10% of your energy all day which makes you fresher for that last climb or last sprint into town.
Now, if you don’t ride fast, you only ride alone, don’t do competitive group rides, and don’t race then forget about aero.
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Same size frame gives marginal benefits. 1. Are you racing? 2. Do you spend any significant amount time on or off the front? 3. Have you optimized everything else?
If you answered yes to all of those, then it matters. If no to one or more, there are other areas to focus on.
Settle down there, Sparky…don’t expect others to do the work to back up claims you make.
My point, had you decided not to get your back up against the wall, was pretty clear. You are assuming that someone on an aero bike has vertical forearms and someone on an endurance bike has parallel forearms. An aero bike does not have to equate to vertical forearms nor does an endurance bike have to equate to parallel.
Tailwinds.
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Only I never said that. And then I reminded you I never said that.
Yet you remain fixated on something I never said. Cool.
Whatever, my man…have a good day.
Here’s an interesting take on the bar height body position dilemma by a guy who knows about this stuff.
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All bikes are expensive now. In Canada, a similarly spec’d Madone SLR7 vs Domane SLR7 is only $350 more on a $10k bike. The Emonda SLR7 is a bit cheaper at $9600 I believe but still not a huge margin on a bike in that price range. I’m not sure how other manufacturers compare.
Where I live its more flat and windy so an aero bike like the madone makes more sense than the emonda. As for the domane, I would rather pay the extra $350 for the madone and have the clean, aero look with it. But that’s just me.
Interesting discussion!!!
I’ve got a 2015 Domane (gen1) and would love to upgrade to Madone, need to kill this browser tab that has been hanging around for the last week or two:
List price in US for the two I’d consider - $4700 for the SL6 and $7000 for SLR6. But I’m cheap and will just keep on keeping on the Domane… maybe its time for another lottery ticket?!
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SL6 is a best of the buck in my eyes, bang for buck. Same shape and function, with a tad more weight than the SLR. The 7 would be nice for Di2, but not a necessity.
The pending more aero Emonda could be worth a look, once we see the builds and pricing.
I’m with you on bang for the buck. The manager at LBS got a 54cm 2020 Madone in Dec/Jan and can’t use his Stages PM due to clearance. Not sure if my crank would have the same issues on the 58cm. But I’m still trying to wear out my bike (the cheap thing) before finding out about Stages compatibility. Or come into a small pile of cash.
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All those options are a fail…not a single red bike.
Pathetic.
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been rocking my wife’s old iPhone 6 since switching to Verizon after Thanksgiving (downgrade, long story, don’t ask), and woke up early and pre-ordered the new SE in (product)red… Couldn’t wait for the 5G phone to come out… So yeah, if I hit it big my top Project One color scheme choice is Gran Premio in Rage Red and Dnister Black. I kinda dig the Molten Marble but not sure if it would become passé after a year like the weird blue my neighbor got on a 6 series European delivery (he sold it 6 months later! what a waste).
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Nice colour choice! I agree about the molten marble. It’s a bit of a risk on something I plan on having for a while. I have been debating a madone slr7 for next year and the colours is something that I keep going back and forth on. Some nice options but it has to still look good to me 5 years from now. Mine also has to have red.
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