AND let not talk about shirtless runners…
At least I run before dawn, so most people dont get to see my ugly hairy back and big keg (instead of six pack)…
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When I was running more and training for triathlons and doing long runs in heat I would run without a shirt. Nobody was impressed by my spindly upper body.
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I am also a schmuck, but I disagree that only at the elite level do genetics play a part. I am one of those people that put in 12 hours/week of coached training for 2 years, only to increase my FTP from 2.5 w/kg to 2.8 w/kg; I’m using FTP because it’s a good measure for aerobic fitness on the bike. Frankly, all else being equal, I think hitting 3.5 w/kg+ is purely genetics; your body can do it, you just need the stimulus to get it there. I think even with 20 hours/week, I would never get there because my genetic cap is probably somewhere around 3 w/kg. And you know what, that’s OK.
For that reason, I disagree that it’s a toxic mindset. Realizing that I will never be able to compete at a “meaningful” level in this sport is what finally gave me peace to just enjoy where I’m at. I started cycling listening to Vegan Cyclist, Nate, and other youtubers talking about how they’re average cyclists. No they’re not. The average cyclist is the weekender riding in slow groups enjoying their time on the bike and doesn’t know what w/kg even means. The people you see on this forum are already “elite” in terms of cyclists.
I think the toxic mindset is that if you just put in more time, effort, and money, you’ll get to where you want to go. No, very likely you won’t. That’s like telling a lifelong hardgainer to risk major injury because one day he’ll be able to 1RM 3x his bodyweight in squat, of course you would never say that because it’s all genetic. Why is cycling any different?
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Your assumption drives the conclusion.
If all else is equal, except genetics, of course genetics is the differentiator.
Blaming genetics is the modern day equivalent of blaming fate. Only the word has changed, the meaning remains the same as it did in Ancient Greece.
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Agreed.
I think you can be competitive (read: fast enough to have fun) at the beginning levels of the sport with genetics OR hard work. To excel takes a measure of both.
To excel at the elite level requires boatloads of both.
I didn’t read his response as “blaming” genetics. He’s merely pointing out the very real fact that genetics establishes an upper bound. He clearly acknowledged that hours on the bike plays a crucial role, and I don’t see how you can argue with his point that no matter how some folks trained, they might not hit 3.5 w/kg.
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I personally thought it was bad ass and inspiring. Stoked to see people taking chances, taking things serious, and executing on a plan.
Get him on the successful athletes podcast plz!
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Yeah, I wasn’t expecting to see Matt Chan there.
And the burpee after the finish 
Not surprised to see the negative folks, but I enjoyed it and am impressed.
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Honestly…I’d rather they had some slow people on and interview them rather than clearly genetically gifted people. There’s very little useful information to be gleaned from the freakishly fast.
I want an interview with the beer drinking dad that had a ten year slog from 2.5watt/kg to 3.5watt/kg, culminating in a cat4 victory. THAT has applicable information 
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When I finally get my Cat 4 victory I’ll make sure Jonathan has me on.
I dont disagree with you but rather would listen to them both.
I argued the point I quoted.
This is without a lot of context, male, female, height, weight. Worked on both sides of the equation?
That aside, weight, height, unfortunately you might be in the genetically disadvantaged, so given how beliefs work its hard believe or understand something that hasnt been your experience.
Of course genetics limits you ultimate performane but I’m yet to see anyone one here anywhere near their limit.
That’s almost a bit irrelevant though, isnt it? You don’t need to be at your limit to see the effects of not great genetics.
You could be doing 90% of the work a world tour pro does yet be blown out the back of cat 3 races…
You’re just not going to get the same bang for ypur buck as van aert, even if you do less work.
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It is totally relevant to suggesting numbers from personal experience, plus you have made an assumption, again personal experience.
And you cut off the genetics part from most post, read understand and quote the whole post. Not bits in isolation (you are making a point on something I didnt say.)
I’m not blaming genetics, it is what it is. Claiming parity in all things is an exercise in folly, of course there will be people with a high genetic advantage in endurance sports that still don’t train hard enough to do well at cycling for any number of reasons.
I’m reminding people to not forget that when you’re at this level (sub 9hrs at Leadville) you’re at the pointy tip of the spear, no matter what everyone else says, and therefore at a genetic advantage over the vast majority of cyclists.
Personally I’m sick of cyclists saying that you can achieve your goal if you just try really hard. It’s almost as if the penalty for sacrifice in cycling doesn’t hit as hard as other sports, or doesn’t hit immediately as hard. If you had that mentality in a strength or combat sport you’d learn relatively quickly that you just don’t have the genetics for it. But with cycling, the realization doesn’t hit until after you’ve spent thousands of dollars or sacrificed years to the sport. If I just hire a coach or stick with the plan or buy that new bike…nah bruh, you just aren’t cut out for being at the pointy end of the spear.
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I’m a middle-aged 200lbs male, worked down from 25% to 13% bodyfat this last year. Yes I realize I’m heavily genetically disadvantaged when it comes to any endurance sport. Fortunately I’m heavily advantaged on anything anaerobic or neuromuscular, so that keeps me happy.
Anyhow my point isn’t to say that I’m the middle of the bell curve, I realize I’m not; IIRC I may actually be slightly in front of the curve. My point is that it shouldn’t be earth-shattering that this athlete, who does perform for a living, makes it to what is arguably the tip of the spear when it comes to a long distance endurance sport on minimal training. These people exist and no matter how hard you train, you will not be like them. Genetics matter A TON.
As for someone reaching their genetic limit, I haven’t gone to 20-30 hours per week but given my minuscule performance after coaching at 12 hours/week…I think that’s about all I got.
Clearly, because you’ve resigned yourself to fate. Hey - we all have tough times, and I’m no one to speak to your circumstances.
But a better message, and a more truthful one, is that you don’t know your limiters or anyone else’s. For the number of people on this planet or reading this post.
Maybe you can’t get any higher, faster, stronger and you’ve measured everything as best can be done at this present time, and you are still in a position where you don’t know what is limiting you. You can assume genetics your limiter but you don’t know. Until you can point at your DNA strands at the scientifically evidenced performance limiting genes, you do not know. And it’s - logically and scientifically - untrue to say so.
By the same measures, pointing at this particular individual and saying their outstanding performance is due to their genetics - well, it’s an untrue statement.
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I disagree with that.
A genetic ‘limiter’ is not a hard and fast number you cant go over. Like , “oh my genetic cap is 268 and 1/2 watts.” Sure, you could probably quit your job amd ride twice as many hours to get to 280.
But, It’s more, you have to clearly work twice as hard for half the improvement as some people. Looked at from this perspective, it’s awfully easy to identify genetic winners and losers. To deny that is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality IMO.
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Can Rich’s result not be surprising, yet still impressive? I think that as he’s a full time, top class athlete, he’s very been very fit and well trained for years. Even if he isn’t a dedicated endurance athlete he has been training endurance for years as well as his entire cardiovascular system. I’d bet he is a fast responder to training and that combined with his work ethic and support system makes a little more expected, yet still impressive.
I didn’t catch it in the video bit does he live at altitude?
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Yea that’s my take. Expected, and impressive. A serious athlete being good at a sport.
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