I am also a schmuck, but I disagree that only at the elite level do genetics play a part. I am one of those people that put in 12 hours/week of coached training for 2 years, only to increase my FTP from 2.5 w/kg to 2.8 w/kg; I’m using FTP because it’s a good measure for aerobic fitness on the bike. Frankly, all else being equal, I think hitting 3.5 w/kg+ is purely genetics; your body can do it, you just need the stimulus to get it there. I think even with 20 hours/week, I would never get there because my genetic cap is probably somewhere around 3 w/kg. And you know what, that’s OK.
For that reason, I disagree that it’s a toxic mindset. Realizing that I will never be able to compete at a “meaningful” level in this sport is what finally gave me peace to just enjoy where I’m at. I started cycling listening to Vegan Cyclist, Nate, and other youtubers talking about how they’re average cyclists. No they’re not. The average cyclist is the weekender riding in slow groups enjoying their time on the bike and doesn’t know what w/kg even means. The people you see on this forum are already “elite” in terms of cyclists.
I think the toxic mindset is that if you just put in more time, effort, and money, you’ll get to where you want to go. No, very likely you won’t. That’s like telling a lifelong hardgainer to risk major injury because one day he’ll be able to 1RM 3x his bodyweight in squat, of course you would never say that because it’s all genetic. Why is cycling any different?
I think you can be competitive (read: fast enough to have fun) at the beginning levels of the sport with genetics OR hard work. To excel takes a measure of both.
To excel at the elite level requires boatloads of both.
I didn’t read his response as “blaming” genetics. He’s merely pointing out the very real fact that genetics establishes an upper bound. He clearly acknowledged that hours on the bike plays a crucial role, and I don’t see how you can argue with his point that no matter how some folks trained, they might not hit 3.5 w/kg.
Yeah, I wasn’t expecting to see Matt Chan there.
And the burpee after the finish
Not surprised to see the negative folks, but I enjoyed it and am impressed.
Honestly…I’d rather they had some slow people on and interview them rather than clearly genetically gifted people. There’s very little useful information to be gleaned from the freakishly fast.
I want an interview with the beer drinking dad that had a ten year slog from 2.5watt/kg to 3.5watt/kg, culminating in a cat4 victory. THAT has applicable information
I’m not blaming genetics, it is what it is. Claiming parity in all things is an exercise in folly, of course there will be people with a high genetic advantage in endurance sports that still don’t train hard enough to do well at cycling for any number of reasons.
I’m reminding people to not forget that when you’re at this level (sub 9hrs at Leadville) you’re at the pointy tip of the spear, no matter what everyone else says, and therefore at a genetic advantage over the vast majority of cyclists.
Personally I’m sick of cyclists saying that you can achieve your goal if you just try really hard. It’s almost as if the penalty for sacrifice in cycling doesn’t hit as hard as other sports, or doesn’t hit immediately as hard. If you had that mentality in a strength or combat sport you’d learn relatively quickly that you just don’t have the genetics for it. But with cycling, the realization doesn’t hit until after you’ve spent thousands of dollars or sacrificed years to the sport. If I just hire a coach or stick with the plan or buy that new bike…nah bruh, you just aren’t cut out for being at the pointy end of the spear.
I’m a middle-aged 200lbs male, worked down from 25% to 13% bodyfat this last year. Yes I realize I’m heavily genetically disadvantaged when it comes to any endurance sport. Fortunately I’m heavily advantaged on anything anaerobic or neuromuscular, so that keeps me happy.
Anyhow my point isn’t to say that I’m the middle of the bell curve, I realize I’m not; IIRC I may actually be slightly in front of the curve. My point is that it shouldn’t be earth-shattering that this athlete, who does perform for a living, makes it to what is arguably the tip of the spear when it comes to a long distance endurance sport on minimal training. These people exist and no matter how hard you train, you will not be like them. Genetics matter A TON.
As for someone reaching their genetic limit, I haven’t gone to 20-30 hours per week but given my minuscule performance after coaching at 12 hours/week…I think that’s about all I got.
Clearly, because you’ve resigned yourself to fate. Hey - we all have tough times, and I’m no one to speak to your circumstances.
But a better message, and a more truthful one, is that you don’t know your limiters or anyone else’s. For the number of people on this planet or reading this post.
Maybe you can’t get any higher, faster, stronger and you’ve measured everything as best can be done at this present time, and you are still in a position where you don’t know what is limiting you. You can assume genetics your limiter but you don’t know. Until you can point at your DNA strands at the scientifically evidenced performance limiting genes, you do not know. And it’s - logically and scientifically - untrue to say so.
By the same measures, pointing at this particular individual and saying their outstanding performance is due to their genetics - well, it’s an untrue statement.
A genetic ‘limiter’ is not a hard and fast number you cant go over. Like , “oh my genetic cap is 268 and 1/2 watts.” Sure, you could probably quit your job amd ride twice as many hours to get to 280.
But, It’s more, you have to clearly work twice as hard for half the improvement as some people. Looked at from this perspective, it’s awfully easy to identify genetic winners and losers. To deny that is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality IMO.
Can Rich’s result not be surprising, yet still impressive? I think that as he’s a full time, top class athlete, he’s very been very fit and well trained for years. Even if he isn’t a dedicated endurance athlete he has been training endurance for years as well as his entire cardiovascular system. I’d bet he is a fast responder to training and that combined with his work ethic and support system makes a little more expected, yet still impressive.
I didn’t catch it in the video bit does he live at altitude?
That’s elite body comp for a middle aged male, but a lot of mass. Maybe working out with Rich?..
It likely healthier body comp than many competitive cyclists who have limited mass/strength, but that’s a trade off some make for the sake of optimizing cycling performance. I’d speculate that your genetic FTP limit might be way over 3.0 w/kg if you are sitting at 2.8 at 200lbs (unless you are like 6’7"+ tall). It sounds like you are happy with your performance and body comp, that’s really all that matters. There is nothing particularly healthy about pushing our bodies past a decent baseline of fitness. And doing the things required to get anywhere near genetics limits is often very unhealthy.
I don’t want to lose muscle mass, partially because as I’ve seen catastrophic injuries from seemingly innocuous spills, not even racing.
Kudos to you, I cannot image being at 7%. That’s a world away from where most people can get. I’m great at picking up heavy things and putting them down, but that’s about as much fun for me as riding my trainer all day.
That is an impressive ride time grwoolf. Nice work. Also makes me think did he have someone pacing him. I know of a guy who’s so is an elite cyclist and he paced him to an incredible time at Leadville. A time he would not be able to get alone/solo/no pacing.
Maybe, but it’s the climbing stuff that doesn’t compute if he was really ~190lbs. Full course times can swing a lot based on whether you get in good drafting groups, but there is a lot of time climbing where drafting is insignificant. It’s simple watts vs. weight on a lot of those climbs. I’ve got ~20 trips around that course between racing and pre-riding and the climbing segments are what they are. It’s very easy for me to pick out years where my weight was 5lbs up or down based on time vs. watts on climbing segments. There is just no way someone 20+lbs heavier than another rider could ride at the same watts and get the same time on those climbs (regardless of drafting). I was surprised/curious more than anything when I compared power, it doesn’t really matter. I still think it’s impressive regardless of what he weighed or whether he had pacing help (which we all do in that race to some extent).
