Hey all! I am trying to finish leadville before I turn 30 (hoping to race in 2027). I have a few young kids and my budget is limited. When I look at my options, I basically can decide between a budget FS or a hardtail.
Pros of a hardtail is it can be about 3-5lbs lighter without any upgrades and is less to maintain. Pros of a FS is it is a much better all around MTB and would be better for day to day riding. I’m a little wary buying used because they may not have maintained the suspension. So far I have narrowed down to the following options and would appreciate some advice or other suggestions.
I understand the hesitancy to avoid used but the used market is just insanely good right now. You can get 10x the bike for the same price as new lower end bikes. Something like the previous gen Epic Evo can be had for the same price as the Chisel FS. I just sold a current gen Blur TR with basically new components for $2k.
Most suspension service is pretty simple, this YT channel is super comprehensive and easy to follow. I highly recommend at least knowing how to do a lower leg service even if you buy new. It’ll keep your bike running better and out of the shop if you can take care of it yourself.
As a rule of thumb, would you have a suspension service and bleed done on any used bike? How can I tell if suspension is beat to hell? I honestly don’t even know what to look for so that’s what terrifies me the most
You always buy used bikes in like new to excellent condition. Lots of people buy bikes with the best of intentions that mostly end up sitting in garages. You don’t buy a bike that was heavily used.
Personally, yes. It’s a 20 minute job to do an air can or lower leg service and it starts me from a good baseline for the bike.
As long as the stanchions aren’t scratched and/or leaking oil, don’t worry too much. Worst case you ship it out to Fox or Rockshox for service but it’s rare you’ll end up buying an XC bike requiring that type of service. Suspension is expensive but it’s incredibly serviceable. As long as the frame is in good shape, send it.
Personally I’d go FS and then practice on it wherever and whenever you can. Much more versatile a bike, and for most people going to be as fast or faster at Leadville anyways.
If you’re an experienced MTB’er, sub-30, and in good bike shape for the race then a HT starts to become a better option as a dedicated Leadville and Gravel Bike, but still loses on all-around versatility.
I’d wait to find a deal on a high quality used FS. People are always selling bikes that have been kept up and are in great condition and you could be getting 50% off.
+1 on full suspension. Not required for Leadville course, but so much more versatile and just a lot more fun to ride/race (particularly long days like Leadville). Modern 120/120 XC bikes are great all-around MTB’s for trail riding.
From that list, I’d go with Chisel. But also agree with the prior suggestion on previous gen Epic Evo if you can find a deal on a lightly used one.
Bucking the trend, I say hardtail. Full suspension is a waste of money for MOST XC racing, ESPECIALLY for Leadville.
And just as a funny anecdote:
My full suspension bike broke on me so I had to miss my last race of the season Saturday. But I brought my running stuff to run while my girlfriend raced on her hardtail Epic. I caught her on course just in time to watch her ride down a gnarly rock section of trail, then immediately watched an Expert (I’m not sure if he still has his pro license) get off and run the same section of trail with his Epic World Cup.
If you are budget limited, don’t waste it on a rear suspension.
Sometimes I think about going back to a hardtail, I still have my Pivot Les frame hanging in the garage for such an occasion.
I also would say, don’t completely dismiss the hardtail. Its a fun bike to have, and very low maintenance if you plan on doing the work yourself, which can be quite helpful. If your riding with your kids, it can just be a nice bike to own, even if your putzing around the neighborhood or want to hop into a pump track or something.
That said, the chisel seems like it could be a great choice.
How good of shape is your back? It sounds silly, but could be a good decider. I am a longtime hardtail rider, and been pretty happy with the choice. That said, on years where my body strength isn’t quite as good, its beat me up a bit more in racing scenarios or long epic rides. Years where I’ve been chopping a lot more wood, or building outdoors, my body handles it a bit better, even if I’m in worse bike shape.
Nothing wrong with a hardtail, especially for Leadville, as long as your back is in good shape and can take a little more pounding. You should be able to get a good deal on a nice hardtail used. Even new, I saw some amazing deals on bikes like the BMC Twostroke.
I haven’t looked, but I suspect you could find some pretty good deals on a Trek Supercaliber as well, especially the Gen1 bike. It’s a great bike for Leadville and sort of splits the difference between a HT and a modern FS. A lot of folks who had Supercalibers and paid top dollar for them are now moving on to something new, so picking one up used could be a great way to go.
I have always taken the used bikes I bought to a LBS for a check-up and a full service.
Once I got a road bike for half price, because the previous owner couldn’t figure out how to adjust the rotors on the hydraulic disc brake. Literally took my bike mechanic 5 minutes. The guy is still on (rather esoteric) mechanical disc brakes.
My advice for a used bike is to either look a garage queen or a bike that’s been well-used, but well-taken care of. My XC hardtail fell into the latter category. I got an insanely great deal: $1,200 for a carbon frame, XTR groupset, World Cup-level fork, 9.6 kg with pedals. Only the brakes were crap, but I replaced those. The previous owner took meticulous care of the bike and upgraded everything a few years into ownership.
My experience only- I’ve raced my Canyon Exceed HT 3x and loved how light and fast it felt. I am going back this summer and just bought a Santa Cruz Blur 4. I’m 47 and while I have never ridden a FS before, my weakness is the descents and if a FS will aid in that at all, it’s worth it to me bc I lose all of my time on descents after passing many on the ascents. Im hopeful that the FS changes that game.
You’re young and if you’re comfortable on a HT, I think I would go that route- 3-5lbs is a big deal over the long day and as noted, there’s less to go wrong mechanically. Pretty sure Keegan won it on a HT as have many others so there’s that.
Regardless, good luck getting up there and get that buckle!
Descending is in the technique, not the bike. Full suspension XC bikes don’t descend faster, they just let you maintain traction better over rough terrain and keep pedaling.
Not debating that skills are a huge part, but disagree that a full suspension bike isn’t faster descending given similar skills. You don’t see folks picking hardtails in competitive enduro or downhill and they aren’t choosing those FS bikes for their pedaling prowess.
And from a safety/comfort standpoint, I personally find a FS bike superior. Leadville is a long day. You don’t need great skills to get down any part of that course on a FS or HT, but being tired causes mistakes and a FS is going keep most riders fresher for longer.
100%…a FS bike will let you descend faster with the same skillset.
Yes, you can improve your skills to descend even faster, but that doesn’t negate that fact that a FS bike descends faster overall, no matter what your skillset may be.
Agreed. Or it takes less effort to descend at the same pace. A rear suspension will enlarge your “window of capabilities” and give you a more comfy ride. When you spend a very long day in the saddle, it may pay off.
In the past, hardtails were faster in a lot of instances. But in my experience, the scenarios where a hardtail will give you an edge (e. g. due to lower weight or higher efficiency) are getting fewer and fewer.
IMHO the best reasons to get a hardtail are (1) you are on a tight budget and cannot afford a good fully or (2) you prefer how hardtails ride.
I agree to an extent, but I think a more advanced rider can close the gap. IE, a beginner could have a descent time of 3:00 on a hardtail, and 2:45 on a full suspension, a more advanced rider could be more like 2:30 on a hardtail, 2:28 on a full suspension bike. That said, the expert rider might be closer to the edge on a hardtail vs full suspension bike to get that time so close, IE one mistake could lead to crashing, where as it might be correctable on a full suspension bike.
EDIT: Beginner might not be really what I’m talking about here, I’m thinking more in the intermediate skill set, where the FS bike might actually make the greatest difference.
Disagree on this a bit. I think the beginner rider is at much higher risk of ruining their day on a hard tail vs. a highly skilled and experienced rider. Even if that experienced rider is right up against the edge. In my experience, the biggest factor for HT vs. FS on this race is fatigue, not whether a FS can get down a chunky section 15 seconds faster. While there are wrecks from people pushing too hard on powerline and columbine descents, you also see a lot of wrecks on fairly tame sections of the course late in the day with fatigue being a big factor. My only big pucker moment I’ve had in this race is coming down Sugarloaf (late in the race) one year. Not that fast and not terribly technical, but I was so sloppy from body fatigue that I almost ended my day. And that’s after riding a FS all day. And the guy who died on course a couple years ago was coming down St. Kevins (last descent of the day with nothing technical about it).
For anyone besides pros or people right up against a time/podium target, the only reason (besides cost) I can see choosing a HT for leadville is because you like riding a HT. A modern FS XC bike is ~3lbs heavier than a similar HT. That’s ~5 minutes of extra time on that course on a very long day if just looking at weight and ignoring all the FS advantages. You can debate how many minutes a FS provides descending and being fresher (ie-more watts), but the risk/reward just doesn’t make sense on a HT for most (in my opinion).
I have a good Leadville bike. Last year I bought a new Scott Spark and have a 2019 Scott Spark RC World Cup for sale. Full suspension 100/100. Has a new fork (2023 and shock serviced), and one piece handlebars, Quarq power meter and full Sram Eagle XX1 drivetrain. It’s been meticulously maintained and race ready. All bearings replaced in 2023 and barely ridden since. Has brand new Recon Race tires. DM me if interested.
I think you have some fair points here. One thing I would add though, for reasons to ride a hardtail, cost, and maintenance. I currently am back on a hardtail for my XC bike, and fully admit its just because “I want to”, not that its better in any way.
I do find that budget FS bikes are just so damn heavy, where as a budget hardtail is “fine”. I coach youth riders, and cant believe how heavy some of these aluminum “XC” FS bikes are, and wish they would go used, or a hardtail for their sizes. Although, this is the reason I was so stoked when the chisel FS came out, and hope to see more riders on that.