I agree about the empirical cycling podcasts. Most of what I know, and what I tried to emulate was based off his podcasts and a one time consultation with one of his coaches (both of which I highly recommend. But I did this when I stopped using plan builder/AT and just wanted some micro/macro advice on self coaching Also I don’t race and have no desire to. Just like riding with a purpose because I have to ride inside 2-3 per week due to kids/work/life)
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Are you looking to improve your VO2max (i.e. stroke volume, breathing muscle capacity, etc.?) or are you looking to improve something like 5-minute power?
Are you aerobically well-developed? Big sprint power? Both? Neither?
The answer you’re looking for depends some on some of that stuff.
If I’m looking to push more power, I’ll do short/shorts. 30/30s are OK as an intro, but I strongly prefer 30/15 or 40/20 style if I’m looking to keep HR up and really push maximum aerobic watts.
If I’m looking for physiological change to improve maximal oxygen uptake, I go with longer “all-out” intervals with the goal of breathing like a fish-out-of-water, etc., as has been mentioned.
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Great video from Dylan. Yes, I think 4 by 4 minute intervals would be very tough. Takes some working to get up to that. I find the 30-30s taxing at the very end of the session but not killer in the sets. Sounds like I need to work up to that over time.
I think I have decent sprint power - about 10w/kg for 20 seconds, but then that drops right down to about 3.3/kg over 5 minutes. I’ve been cycling for a couple of years, never having done any cardio before. My fitness has improved hugely, and my average HR has decreased on rides, though my average power seems not to have increased too much.
Edit: my 20 second peak is about 14w/kg, 1 minute about 8w/kg, not 10w/kg as above.
How much dedicated threshold work have you done? Do you do any long endurance riding?
Dedicated threshold, not loads, but I tend to do a fair amount of hilly rides. I live hear the Surrey Hills - we have short and punch climbs (mostly 100-200m in ascent, with gradients of 7 to 13+%) and try to do one big ride like this (80-100km) every week with several climbs.
What you’re describing above with “lower HR but power not increased much” leads me to believe you need more dedicated threshold and long endurance ride time. Like increase duration of your longest rides quite a bit. 100km as your longest rides isn’t going to do a whole lot, but the odds are good you’d start seeing better gains if you increased your overall volume and did a couple months worth of dedicated threshold riding 2x per week. How that looks? Well, you could do those Surrey climbs as repeats at threshold 3-4-5 times depending on how long they are.
But I doubt you’ve reached a point where you really need to push your VO2max ceiling up. Maybe, considering you don’t have much endurance sport in your background, but the odds are pretty good you just need more baseline aerobic work - long rides and threshold intervals.
If you’re time limited, there are some strategies to do sweet spot that can help in the short term, but you’ll plateau and become volume limited eventually (if you’re not already there).
If you want to work VO2max based on the discussion above, I’d point you to the longer interval sets described in that thread linked above. Start with the 3x6min type and progress time in zone while decreasing duration of the intervals themselves. So 3x6 - 4x5 - 5x4 - 6x3:30 - 7x3. That’s a common progression I do, with three workouts each week over the course of three weeks and have had success with the past two seasons. Rest of your volume during those blocks is easy Z2, like 0.6 - 0.65IF at most.
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Thanks Kurt. Looking at my strava, I’ve done 3,500km this year. I am reasonably time constrained, I can do 3 cycles a week mostly, with 1 big one (100km), and 2 smaller ones from 30-50km or 2 hour long indoor sessions.
Hill repeats sounds good, but how do I do those at threshold rather than VO2 Max? I do have a power meter but its not that easy to hold steady wattage when the gradient is varying.
In September, I’ll probably be aiming to do a lot more TR sessions so can be more focused then.
Do the best you can with it. Aim for 95-100% for the duration of the climbs. One way to do them is go for a set time up the hill keeping power at threshold as best you can, then roll back down, and try to get to the same spot each time. That lets you settle into the work without staring at your power meter. You can focus on feel and your breathing/cadence.
If you do the repeats on the same hill, you learn when to shift and how to spin. I have a hill I do all my VO2max workouts on and I can pretty much do sets in my sleep knowing when I need to shift to keep my cadence high.
Each week you can reach a little bit further until it’s time to progress duration. So start with 3-4 x 8min or so, recover the way down the hill. Go again. Progress after four or six sessions of that to 10 min, then 12, etc. Try to progress total time in zone. Eventually you’ll be holding threshold for longer and longer and you’ll notice that it gets to feel a bit easier - threshold has gone up!
We get wrapped around the axle about perfect intervals and such, reality is do them well enough and be consistent with it and you’ll get the gains. So don’t worry about being bang on average power all the time, just ride your bike and get the work in. 
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Can you progress the time at 90%+ hr with progression? Or do you just look at the power?
Sounds good Kurt, will be giving this a go. We have a few hills of varying flavours I can pain myself on.
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If you do block style VO2max training, it can be hard to sustain the workload. So that progression gets you more working time, usually it results in higher power during the intervals, but the time above 90% stays about the same. I’ll usually get 13-15min above 90% in those workouts. (I do the hard start, high cadence style if I am trying to work VO2max… I’ve found them very effective.)
By the time I’m doing the 7x3s it’s just holding on for dear life waiting for a recovery week. 
And you may not need that whole progression. When I start to struggle to hold power within 5% or so on the intervals, I progress to the next shorter set. You’ll kinda know when it’s time to move. Might be two workouts, maybe more… maybe less.
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I like this train of thought regarding going into the off season with some level of peak at the end of your racing year.
I am certainly about to do my second block of dedicated vo2max work ahead of hill climb season and then take some time off thereafter.
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It depends. If you’re about to go into a break off the bike, it might be a little bit wasted. Ideally you do VO2max, then some FTP work and supplement with volume to sustain the gains from the VO2 block.
Doing a VO2 block at the start of a season can be a good idea. USA Cycling’s lead elite coach had his guys start with several MAP sessions before their volume season kicked off so that their long easy rides would be faster and more interesting. Something I’ve never done, but is an intriguing idea from a guy who knows more about this stuff than me!
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I think now is a great time of year for VO2max. Think I have built up something of a base from the riding I’ve done this year and I can really feel my recovery from tough rides (with faster folks) is much improved.
I’m aiming to get some a VO2 Max block / Hill reps or two in over the next weeks, in between family holiday and then cycling holiday. After the family holiday I’ll try and get another VO2max block in, in amongst some long rides and then another family holiday after which I will likely go for a base program (November - January or so) and then might do a build (maybe sustained power build?).
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hard start 5 x 5’s (45s hard surge ~130%, then keep HR at 90% max for remainder of time)
classic 5 x 5’s ( done purely by power, 115-120% FTP)
30/15s (RPE 9/10)
Hard start for 2-3m then keep HR at 90% Max for 8 minutes total (do 3x)
Find your favorite climb and blast it 5-6 times
Those should get you rolling with a variety of power based, HR based, and RPE. Hitting all angles.
And ditch the sweet spot!
Brendan
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