Beef between Justin Williams and Travis McCabe

Yep I remember Bibby rocking his white skinsuit for ‘circuit race’ champs.
And going back to this post below, so do Australia and New Zealand. Australia even have theirs on the same week as the pro’s so WT teams are usually littered in the front.
Caleb was a usual winner when racing for Greenedge.

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I read a comment somewhere else (Cyclingtips?) that it’s only really Au and NZ who bother to lodge the relevant paperwork with the UCI.

I’m from Aus. Winning the national crit is nice and all, but if you want to wear the national crit champs jersey, you can only wear it during crit races. There are separate RR and TT jerseys which are the main championships. Hell, there was even a fixed gear crit championship this year that won the right to wear national colours in fixed gear crits…

The RR and the TT are really the only jerseys that people care about. Do people care about the national crit champ jersey in the states? Seems crazy to me that there is a Pro & Amateur championship at a national level as well?

As i’m not from the states, what I don’t understand is Legion’s UCI status? I believe they are a pro continental team? How are their results in those races?

In our region, I don’t think crits aren’t even included in pro-conti level racing (it’s mostly (all?) road races). There certainly isn’t any international level crit-only racing, so there’s really no point in being a pro-conti team if you aren’t delivering results in road races. Seems to me that Legion is a good marketing platform for companies, but that the team is too crit focused to be racing at an international level in road races?

For Aussie pro-conti teams, crits are just a side hustle for fun, fitness and some accessible race pace and tactics work when they’re not targeting big road races.

N.B. We have had a national crit series run for a few years, but it’s not as extensive as the national crit scene in the US.

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We literally have no road races in my state.

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They are UCI continental, one step down from Pro Continental. Same level as the Aus teams you are referring to though, so only a confusion of name.
I think they needed to step up to conti to be given a start at pro Nationals. They haven’t done any other uci races that I can see, but they have a line up that would do quite well. They need to be conti to race any x.1’s and it gives them a better chance at getting starts in the x.2’s. So to get a start in Tour of Utah or Maryland’s they need to be conti or above. Eder Frayre wouldve top 5 in Utah had it still been going ahead. And wouldve won tour de Beuce. Ovett also has good numbers, but doesn’t get the race results his power and strava times should suggest. I highly doubt either of these two were signed for crits, so there was definitely an expansion intended.

Same as other countries and all other disciplines though. Means you get a national champs kit when you race crits, so for someone doing a decent amount of crits it is quite worth while or even a few really.
Caleb used to use the crit nationals as a form tester, and would mean he got to show off the bands in the crit at TDU (amongst the other countries RR champions).

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2020 was the first year Legion was intending on having UCI Continental status, so this is their first year actually racing with that license, so they hadn’t had a track record with that license yet. All of their wins were in the amateur circuit as Cat 1 racers. In the U.S., Cat 1/2 and Pro generally have a race together at racing events.

Yes, we care about the crit jersey because road racing is almost non-existent in the U.S. (see below). Part of having both amateur and pro levels certainly has to come down to getting the aforementioned license. I believe that Justin said in a podcast that it’s $25k just to buy the license, and in addition, you have to have an additional $50k just sitting around as part of the license agreement. It’s some kind of contingency cost that he and the team cannot touch, essentially.

So you have that expense before you even get bikes, pay for travel and accommodations, pay for race fees, insurance, etc. Without a license, running a team is super expensive. I imagine for some teams, buying that next license up just doesn’t make fiscal sense so they opt to remain at the amateur status instead.

Bike racing in the U.S. doesn’t have the same kind of public support it has in other countries (although it appears to be changing with the help of Legion and gravel races becoming national headlines).

Road races are practically dead in the U.S. And Justin’s vision for the team is about creating a new business model for cycling in the U.S. around the crit scene. There is a great thread about how road races are dying in the States on the forum already if you’d like to learn more about why. Below is the link.

In any case, Justin and his team don’t really care about road races because their vision is focused on the crit scene as a means of building local and regional cycling communities and hubs that can host teams from other communities similar to how the NBA, NFL and NHL got their starts. Justin is interested in creating something new rather than trying to fit into what he considers to be an old and outdated business model that has failed in the U.S.

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Thanks for the explanations! :slight_smile:

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It’s very sad to hear that road racing is on a serious decline in the USA.

There are so many spectacular locations in the US that would be simply incredible to race through.

It’s the same in many countries, huge increases in population. There’s no way we can all share the same road real estate without growing issues. It’s a shame that global population control is such a taboo subject. It’s the fundamental cause of nearly all our current climate issues and traffic and well almost everything… discussion for another day…

It does seem strange that dudes racing around a random industrial park is the pinnacle of racing in the US. I love a good crit, but would be very sad if that’s all I had on offer.

Isn’t climbing and descending a spectacular mountain simply amazing when everything aligns?

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100% agree. Thankfully, you don’t need to race to do this.

Agree - the US has amazing scenery and landscape. The best parts are far away from population centers - which means they are less likely to have a critical mass of people interested in frequent racing. Leading to my point above - it’s still a ton of fun with a few friends or even by yourself.

That said, increasingly there’s outfits looking to entice people out to the less populated areas of the country. Leadville and Emporia are probably the best known, and the old guys on the block. But there’s other newer arrivals also - just need to turn some of these into races and not just grand fondos.

Live and learn… Shows how much of a big deal it is then (i.e., not).

If it’s only for that circuit series then it is probably a lot more niche than the RR champs jerseys, which is why I’ve not really come across it.

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Race director here that mainly promotes races in the Hampton Roads area a few hours from DC. You don’t see many road races anymore because the expenses are very high compared to a crit and the permits and permissions are harder to secure for longer courses that cannot be closed.

To give you an idea of what it costs to put on a race I’ll use figures from my most recent crit I put on about a month ago. Total expenses were $4k. USAC rider insurance fees are $5 per unique rider, I had 160 unique riders, total USAC insurance fees ($800), 4 officials ($550), lunch for officials ($80), USAC Event permit and additional insured certificates ($250), police to block entrance road of industrial park ($300), porta potties and traffic cone rental ($500), prize money ($1,200), Miscellaneous expenses ($400).

If this had been a road race I would have to have additional police to block intersections, Moto officials, additional insurance for follow and lead vehicles, more complicated permits because of the larger area being used. Additional expenses could be anywhere from $2k-??? depending on the event. The crit I put on ended up clearing $1k, so I would need over 200 unique riders to get close to breaking even. That is a tough ask in my local racing scene. More doable in MABRA where you are from.

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Yup, that’s a perfect TL:DR of the thread. The cost is extraordinary and the political will needed from the local city council or county board can be nearly impossible to secure for a road race due to its footprint and scale compared to a crit.

Side note: I have communicated with your water and sewer district (Hampton Roads) a ton for my work. They’re legit industry leaders!

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Dude, it’s really tough to get local governments to work with you at all now. It’s a lot easier for the people in charge of issuing permits to just say no, then to have to deal with any additional stress brought on by someone wanting to put on a race. I have to be more selective with what races I want to put on because I have to keep my expenses in check because I know that in my local racing scene around 180 unique riders is my ceiling for participation. We can’t get the bigger pool of racers from the NOVA, DC, Maryland area to make the 2-3 hour drive south to my area even when there are not conflicting races. It’s a Catch-22 of if I could always get enough racers to break even I would promote more races that had higher expenses, but I can’t so I promote what I know won’t lose me money.

That’s good to hear my area is doing something right haha. My local sanitation department (HRSD) is about to expand one of their plants in a park I hold a CX race at though and it’s going to cause me to have to change my course some. So not loving them right now lol.

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I guess the US doesn’t have a hill climb scene (not in the same way we do in the UK anyway…)

Agree. For as good as they are, they seem to cry a lot when they don’t like something. I was initially a fan, but this constant noise is off-putting.

Howdy neighbor! :wave:

Funny, I’m a utility contractor here!

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Where abouts are you at in Hampton Roads? I’m in NN.

Virginia Beach myself

Sweet! Small world.

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