Wow, I was surprised.
(the video was removed)
EDIT: AND the take down of their methodology and the huge mistakes they made. (Thanks to Alexander_Hardy for posting this below)
Weird test. They arenât measuring at his foot, they are measuring power at the crank/pedals. So this is post shoe. They havenât actually tested the shoe in a test about shoes.
I recently listened to a podcast and the guest tests running shoes, they actually test runner efficiency, I think via some vo2 type testing equipment. So they are figuring out if the runner has to put more or less effort in to run the same pace. That is what needed to be tested here.
On my do all bike I have a pair of carbon soled road shoes and a pair of plastic mtb shoes I use. So both using the same cleat/pedal system. My feet are less tired at the end of a ride in the carbon shoes. The MTB shoes are on their deathbed and I plan to replace them with something stiffer for that reason, not power.
3 Likes
But isnât that the point? To see if youâre losing power to the shoe. I havenât had time to watch the video but isnât part of the benefit of carbon soles is conservation of power. So if the leg is pushing 100W for example, the carbon shoe transmits 98W or whatever and the vinyl, because of flex, only transmits 90W.
To me, you need a measurement pre and post shoe. So the pedal or crank power measure is fine. But you need a pre shoe power measurement somehow.
1 Like
They did not do this, they measured at the crank and at the wheel. Then concluded if you put 200 watts into the pedal you got the same 176 (I think it was like 24 watt loss) at the roller. All they measured in this test was drivetrain loss 2x.
They had no clue what power he was putting into the shoe.
4 Likes
To see if you are losing power to the shoe you need to measure power before the shoe not after.
1 Like
Thatâs what I said. Before and after.
I know carbon soles are stiff and light. But is there something like âthe sole is too stiff my feet hurtsâ factor?
I always thought the point of carbon shoes was to be thinner and reduce stack height. The cheaper shoes are probably nearly as stiff if they are made thicker.
The better uppers and boas is also another nice/important part. Iâd still pick a cheaper shoe that fit better though.
@Jonathan didnt you have a family member that works for nasa test this?
I think a really stiff shoe can magnify fitment issues and cause more pain for poor setups. Iâve seen too many people that have adjusted their cleat position my a really small amount, and gotten amazing results. shrug
I remember the myths that I fell for was that the shoe was âmore accurateâ transferring more power to the pedals and then the wheel than a more flexible shoe, which made sense. Another myth was the idea that the flexing of the shoe would directly cause foot pain. I have a history of foot issues and use insoles for those issues. I started with a plastic shoe, and jumped to carbon for every shoes since. On over stiff shoes: I DID have issues with poor setup once, moving the cleat a small amount fixed it. (I think if the cleats are too far forward, the pain is from the foot being a lever on the pedal, increasing the stresses on that foot. (It hurt like hell, but took a few rides to kick in, and effected normal walking too eventually))
One other part of the âcheap shoesâ is that many have some form of stiffener in the sole. It adds to the weight, and also encourages stress and breakage at the ends and sides of those plates. My own wife, no power rider, broke a pair of shoes over time. On a group ride, now many years ago, a rider did the same thing: broke their shoe as the steel plate caused the complete fracture of the shoe sole at that point, It was completely broken, and largely unstable/unusable. OuchâŚ
EDIT: Memories from my days on the Peloton FB group. They had a number of shoes fail because of the sole breaking, and was caught having to replace them, but even after all that I doubt they lost too much money. Peloton had a lot of issues with their âpartsâ, from pedals that failed, to shoes, to seat posts, saddles, etc. Eventually if you cut enough corners, it comes back and bites you. After that there were a few people that took to carbon shoes. It made me think that there are two kinds of riders, some that take what they are given and ride that, or people that have a higher ideal and toss the included junque and tailor their bike and riding experience to their expectations. (After our Peloton pedals failed, I swapped in a pair of SPD-SL light action pedals. They were the perfect solution to unreliable low end parts. I never even applied for the replacement pedals. Why?
Iâm sure itâs possible, but my personal experience was that going from the old school soles to carbon reduced foot pain because I could no longer feel the shape of the pedal pushing into my foot.
6 Likes
That too. There was a rider who said they could feel the edges of the stiffener in one of their shoes. Most thought it was silly, but if the shoe is starting to fail due to constant flexing, I could believe that the decomposition is constant and increasing and the wearer could eventually feel the plate. At that point, Iâd be getting out of those shoes and toss them, but thatâs me. 
2 Likes
Yeah, back then I was on SPD and Speedplay pedals too, so one hot spot, right in the middle of the forefoot.
Even though it seems like that would be the case, for me it never has been. I went from a plastic sole, to partial carbon, to top-end S-Phyres and the S-Phyres have been the most comfortable to date. I have no idea about power between shoes but I can hold position longer if I am more comfortable. I suppose itâs like saddles where a stiff hard-shelled saddle is the most comfortable (to me) versus an uber-padded monstrosity because the body parts are actually being supported and not just sinking in and causing soft tissue pressure. Now shoes, like saddles, are evolving and a stiff shoe today may be designed to map to the specific riders anatomy and cleat position. Throw in some other variables such as a âcheapâ shoe having not only a softer sole but possible inferior closure system where power may be lost or the rider canât get the right fit it may be hard to tease out what was due to sole stiffness alone. I always tell folks the best shoe is the one that fits your feet and is the most comfortable for the riding you will be doing. If a rider is constantly shifting position or âthinkingâ about their feet, power is often lost.
3 Likes
The soles are too stiff
I want a softer insert now
Great post. Stiffer has generally been better for me as well, and even better when paired with a good insole. Less fatigue and zero numbness on long rides or hard efforts, and that has itâs own performance advantages regardless of theoretical power transfer.
1 Like
Peak torque has done a video on it with a very good point (I also think someone mentioned it above). That they tested too late in the chain and didnât actually compare anything (apart from the repeatability of the rig).
4 Likes
Yep. Their testing is completely worthless and didnât actually test the shoes at all lol. I donât know why they actually published this 
.
That video is great!! They could have potentially answered their question, but getting at the ultimate question if how much was lost across the shoes isnât an easy get.
Their âanswerâ seems to work to sell more cheap shoes.
There may be some nuggets of info in the pedal torque and forces but I assume not otherwise they may have said it.
Ultimately, I donât think they are capable of this level of analysis, it is too far out of their comfort zone.
In the comments Oli couldnât even understand it when people were correcting him.
Iâm not sure if SSE is staffed by just technicians or if actual scientists work there who are supposed to help them.