I’ve had this happen too and made mention above somewhere but I started to think and came up with the idea that maybe not all illness’ have the same impact on hrv. For example, maybe a virus has a different impact on hrv than a bacterial infection. Like a cold vs. a flu. Just a thought. I was sick, low energy and a fever in January and I had a recovery score in the 90%’s. made no sense to me.
My subscription just ended. I won’t renew but it does still work as a hr monitor.
One Whoop phenomenon I fail to understand is the negative impact editing incorrectly autodetected sleep has. Last night Whoop set my sleep at 2 hours less than it was, giving me 4.5 hours and a recovery score of 77%. I edited it to add back 2 hours to my actual sleep time and my recovery dropped to 18%.
It only added 1 hr to “hours of sleep”, but how could more rest plummet my score?
Graph with the corrected sleep attached
I believe it’s because Whoop places a lot of emphasis on HRV. Maybe more than it should (that’s a debate for another day). Your HRV was probably lower during the extra two hours of sleep when Whoop read your “new” HRV, which lowered your recovery score. There is some debate about whether HRV should be recorded while sleeping, or even laying down. The parasympathetic nervous system is fully turned on while laying down (and probably even more so while sleeping), and since HRV is a measure of your how your heart rate changes based on the pull of both your sympathetic (fight or flight) and parasympathetic (rest and digest) on your RHR, there may be some error in Whoop’s HRV algorithm. But I am still using it. I like their sleep metrics better than anything else I’ve found so far, and I have struggled with insomnia since my TBI in a crit 3 years ago. It’s not perfect. And I won’t use it forever. But I’m using it indefinitely, for the time being.
I’ve now spent three full months with my Whoop and find two great benefits in it: it doesn’t swamp me in data so it does not become yet ANOTHER distraction, and as @noahphence mentioned above: “I’m now competitive about my sleep.” Just like getting 1mph faster, or bringing FTP up 5W… I now actively think about how much sleep I need, and when I should go to bed, and how I can raise my weekly average sleep score by 1%.
The whole science of sleep measurement is in its infancy, and Whoop will keep improving or be overtaken by a competitor… but for now, MY reality is that the data from it is pretty accurate, correlates well to what I observe, and most importantly, gives me an unforgettable and irrefutable track record of my recent sleep “performance” and helps me improve.
My weekly average sleep score has gone from 55% in mid-January to 67% last week. Over two months, I’m now sleeping an average of 65 additional minutes per night. That is HUGE as far as I am concerned… and I’m thrilled to have paid $350 for those results and the tools to keep improving them. The tools I use may change over time, but some form of HRV and sleep metrics are with me to stay, simply because the results are compellingly clear.
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I found the post from whoop HQ about respiratory rate and covid interesting, and looked back on all my respiratory rate rate numbers. So far so good!
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Question for you guys. I’ve had my whoop since about february. I seem to remember that in the beginning, there was a simple questionnaire each morning about things like muscle soreness and other very simple subjective feelings.
And now it seems to have been replaced with this “journal” feature that allows you to track (and i suppose suss out the impact of) your behaviors on a much more granular basis.
This is great but really, I think i’d find a lot more value in the original questionnaire: one question about overall subjective feeling, one question about soreness, etc.
Am i totally crazy and misremembering here? Alternatively, IS there a way to log these simple subjective metrics in the app?
Thanks!
You’re not mistaken. I’ve been using WHOOP since Dec 2018, and was pretty happy with the questions prior to the recent change. I skip the sleep questions now because my routine is almost always the same…
Unfortunately most of the features they’ve pushed out since I’ve joined have been more geared towards strength athletes and wellness minded weekend warriors. Given the new calorie calculator, for instance, I can only imagine how far off numbers are for pros. Mine are often off by up to 50% for a long ride vs kJ. Funny that my weekly review also has had me overreaching roughly every week since 2018…
I’m still keeping my membership because I like the big picture metrics, sleep/HRV day and it’s done well at keeping me on good behavior in terms of recovery habits. I do hope they’ll address the way they crunch numbers to allow some variability for fitness levels and sports though. Having accurate calorie numbers would be a start.
yeah calorie numbers would be fine, but really i liked the old version of that journal. Kind of like a mini version of Res Q exercise sport questionnaire. I wish they’d bring that back!
tracking subjective feelings of soreness, energy level and well being, in broad strokes, every single day = very useful
tracking milligrams of CBD oil and what exact time of day you took it = not really that useful
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Interesting you say that because I’ve been debating the last week or so purchasing one. Hearing your comment about how our calories are and how it’s more geared towards lifting people really has me questioning if it’s even worth it.
I guess I should clarify that I think it’s an issue of their algorithm and cardiovascular fitness level. The estimates have gotten further off the fitter I’ve become. With cycling HR being typically lower than in a sport that’s more full body, HIIT or running, a strong cyclist might not get great cal accuracy, at least that’s my experience.
Long and short, YMMV based on your power output and HR. And, I still consider WHOOP some of the best money I spend for the way I train.
Could you tell me a bit more why? Whoop really does interest me, I want to see how it tracks recovery and whatnot, but I want to hear more about how an endurance athlete likes it/uses it. Just want to make sure I’m not wasting $300 bucks.
I really like that WHOOP captures everything 24/7 and gives me a good overall view of my recovery without me having to make any extra effort or spend time digging into numbers. I train quite a bit, but don’t obsess over metrics or the minutiae.
I check my recovery score every morning and my HRV/RHR but rarely change plans because of it. Only if I’m feeling smoked, or I’ve had a few low scores in a row combined with undue fatigue will I shift things a bit. It’s about as simple as it could be.
Important to note, I’m not on a structured plan, so this is easy to do. I have a job with fairly flexible hours so I try to get in 12-15hrs most weeks but days/times are a bit up in the air. I do periodize my training, but it’s not exactly linear.
Using WHOOP and some basic TSS/CTL guardrails as a rough guide, I managed a healthy 600hrs in 2019 and I’m almost to 200hrs in 2020. No injuries or burn out since a week ill in May 2019 when I over did it prepping for a stage race and not being smart about it. I train in a pyramidal model most of the year with lots of Z2, tempo, long rides and (maybe too much) zwift racing.
FWIW the calorie calculation doesn’t really matter too much to me. I’ve talked to folks at WHOOP and get their issue. Most people won’t burn 1000kJ/hr for extended periods with HR under 80%. I’m also not a nutrition obsessive. At 188cm and 71kg I eat what I want most of the time and my wife would probably like me to eat more…
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Thank you for such a great write up. I appreciate all the time and detail. We’re similar in training and build. Same height but I have an extra 5 kgs. Seems like a positive to keep things in check.
I imagine I’ll pull the trigger sometime this week. Worst case I send it back within 30 days 
Thanks again.
Why 300??? I just got mine last month basically all you have to do is commit to the first 6 months, and the strap is free. So essentially you are paying 180 for the strap and service for 6 months, then if you don’t like you stop sevice, and if you do like it all you do is continue to pay the monthly 30 fee. To me it was a no brainer so I went ahead and ordered it. Love it. Oh and if you do decide to buy it use code Philsentme it was good for 15% for me, you can thank the cookie man later!
Mainly because I know if I sign up for a longer period, and use that Phil code I get 18 months for just under $300, and if I do just the 6 month I pay the $30 per month and then pay shipping. Just kinda looking at it like an extra 100+ for another 12 months.
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10-4
Yeah I was looking at it more from the side that I wanted to try it out before committing to any big bucks…which sounds similar to the way you’re feeling. At 180 I bit the bullet and figured Id try it out and in 6 months a new promotion or whatever, regardless I’d figure it out down the road.
When I got it I hadn’t read this thread, I was actually pretty surprised with the Apple watch and App mentioned above. Unfortunately I’m an Android user but otherwise I would’ve gone that route 100%, I believe that’s money better spent. I actually keep looking at my WHOOP for time…sometimes I wish it had a watch function.
I didn’t even notice this because I don’t care and therefore never look, but they are WAY off. I had a 1500kj day that whoop thought barely cracked 1000. The daily caloric estimate is also much lower than I believe, even on rest days.
I’m not a huge Whoop fan, see my earlier comments, but I don’t have much of a gripe regarding kcal measurement.
Yesterday I did a 2 hour workout, Whoop said a burnt 1290kcal, my TR workout said 1336kcal so not a great deal of difference really. Am I missing something?
It depends on how fit you are vs. how fit Whoop’s average cyclist user is. Whoop is basically looking at your HR data and then using that to map to an effort level, and then using your weight + effort to estimate how much energy was expended based on a model of the average cyclist. If you are a 5W/kg cyclist, then there will probably be a huge difference between Whoop’s estimate and reality, but if you fit their model then the estimate will probably be close. Mine is also pretty close.
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