Amateur doping - rider tests positive for TEN substances

Interesting article. Not at all surprised.

Take the blinkers off and most people would’ve seen this going on around them from 16 onwards.

Doping for Paris-Brest-Paris is from 2003 but an interesting read about someone that took all kinds of stuff under the care of an anti-aging doctor. I would assume nearly 20 years of pharmaceutical research has made more powerful and targeted drugs too. People cheat at PBP without doping so I am not surprised that someone doped to finish it. I heard in 2019 they found someone with a motor in their bike.

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Read that a couple of years ago, but couldn’t remember what it was called, thanks for digging it out. Pretty sure people do all of that without realising or at least admitting to themselves that they are doping. Especially when they are not competitive in any races. Once they are near the top of their category, they might think about it more carefully, but I’d guess a lot of amateurs doping don’t do it to win.

To be clear, i’m not juding somebody who would consider this. You’re absolutely right when you say that it’s up to that person. Just giving my thoughts on what my stance is towards ‘‘supplementing’’ with those kind of products for my own body. @Craig_G put it very well:

I’m also departing from the premise that the person is healthy and that there’s no need for supplementation.

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That was a 70 year old in a velo from memory.

Here is something I KNOW:

  • I wont be a PRO, or likely a CAT1, no matter how hard I work. I arguably got into the sport too late and probably don’t have the genetics to get me there.

Here is something I DON’T KNOW:

  • How far can I improve my fitness to push my body as high as possible by training. This is what drives me and motivates me to keep on training. I couldn’t imagine adding in the variable of doping. It will always add an asterisk on my personal data of what I can actually do. As others have said… I am racing myself.

I will also take this chance to recommend watching the documentary Icarus on Netflix… highly recommended.
https://www.netflix.com/title/80168079

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Go big or go home!

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Disagree with your context.

Pro sports should be idealised and filled only with the best talent and those with clean slate backgrounds to inspire kids. Doping to get a spot in a team is just a way of dodging real life commitments and the grind the rest of us face. An extended childhood in many ways. That privilege should be held sacred.

Amateurs who work for a living should more free reign to do whatever they want with their hobbies and buy whatever kit they want. No-one gives a toss about some cat 2 winning some local race apart from a tiny niche of other guys who the world doesn’t know or care about, so they should be less regulated.

What they both have in common is that they want to cheat to get something they don’t deserve.

In one case it matters in some ways, in the other, it doesn’t really matter at all.

knowing what I know I stopped thinking I am watching clean athletes when I watch high level pros in almost any sport on tv a long time ago. And sadly doping at the amateur level is very real and more prevalent than most would like to believe. I do not condone doping or cheating of any kind but I can understand why professionals would dope as there is a lot of money on the line and it is cut throat but at the amateur level and especially with a masters athlete there is no reason whatsoever to dope, it is sad actually

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I’m not gonna beat the dead horse for the millionth time. I’m sure every perspective of this argument has been discussed a million times. You are entitled to your own opinion.

I just hope that you’re not naive enough to believe any pro sport is clean to this day and will ever be in the future. And if you are, lucky you! Enjoy it lol.

I personally still enjoy seeing amazing things done on the bike, fully knowing it’s not humanly possible in most cases without bending or in most cases braking the rules.

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Definitely wasn’t suggesting pro sport was clean.

Far from it.

Just that it’s less appropriate ethically. Amateurs doping - not even sure why there’s any commotion about that. Just simply do not care what amateurs do. A cat 1 winning a crit is about as interesting to me as two 12 year olds sprinting to the end of the street.

Which means I also don’t care if they’re doping.

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There isn’t such a clear-cut distinction between amateurs and professionals. There is a wide range of “gray” between the two. Riders with expenses only contracts. Riders with good sponsorship, but no contract. Riders who have support from their road team, but not when they race MTB. Riders who are professionals in the winter, but amateurs in the summer. You can’t separate them that easily.

Of course, everyone knows that.

Pro/amateur chat in the entire thread has been shorthand for whatever reference point we’re all using.

Sorry, then I can’t make sense of your earlier comment where you say pro sport should be sacred and amateurs can do what they want. What about the team rider with sponsorship who also works 9-5, and wins races at the weekend?

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Then you can’t make sense of the entire thread where everyone is literally talking about Pros and amateurs.

It’s shorthand and regional. In my region if you’re categorised as a professional by the regulatory body then you’re a pro.

We could literally go through every region in the world and list all the divisions and I could literally go yeah these guys are pros and these other guys are amateurs.

But we won’t because the whole thing is an exercise in pedantry and adds nothing. Everyone knows the difference and everyone knows there are grey areas which may be gateways to professional racing.

Where there is nuance obviously there is nuance. Where we have weekend warriors doing local crits its more clear cut.

What’s your point?

I can sort of see your point but I’m looking at this from the opposite side of the telescope. What pros do doesn’t impact me. If you are a doper and get me by 10 seconds in the state time trial after I’ve invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours you can damn sure bet it impacts me.

I’d like to say let’s just give each other high 5’s and we all get a trophy but the fact is, when you’re talking to amateurs who are racing, there is a lot on the line. If it wasn’t important then the amateurs in question would not be racing. If it were all about “pushing themselves” and all of that they’d just be out going for not-on-strava PRs.

Joe

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Yeah ultimately everything everyone does in society impacts someone in some way.

But this is a much wider argument about libertarianism now, and I say that’s a wider argument because the impact on you really isn’t great. It may annoy you, it may hurt your self-esteem if you’ve decided to tie it to a result etc. It may even push you to take drugs yourself and abuse them and hurt your health.

But these knock on effects are the same for anything in society - alcohol’s effects are significantly worse on society than anything a doper beating you in a race or local segment will ever be.

But would you want to go back to prohibition?

Maybe we should!

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I said exactly the same to a high level athletics coach about the 100m sprint. He laughed his head off and said ‘You’ve been watching it for years’. I suspect that’s the case in most pro sports tbh…

I really don’t think that’s true. As others have said, there is a huge difference between understanding why someone might be tempted and condoning it. We all face temptation to do things that are wrong every day, and hopefully make - mainly - the right choices. If someone else makes the wrong choice - be that legally or simply morally - we can absolutely call them out on it but should be human enough to understand why they made the choice they did.

Minor public service announcement here: as someone who has had a scare with this, testicular cancer is actually the most common non-blood cancer in men under 40. Check yourselves regularly, gentlemen.

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About the pro-doping thing. I think it’s more like maybe people get resigned to seeing how futile it can be. A bit like banning alcohol or banning marijuana.

Very good reasons but you create an unnecessary criminality in society and structural burdens that come with it.

That’s why I’d be be okay with a zero testing playground. If it’s popular, so be it. People are just being people and let them enjoy themselves without me judging.

We may even have odd situations where professional football has less testing than amateurs cycling!

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