The simple fact is don’t compete if you break the rules. If you plan to dope and want to be competitive, stick to non sanctioned events and group rides.
Also, it’s ridiculous to classify AG riders as losers. This is a place to keep things somewhat competitive by allowing people of similar age competing against each other.
Because the rules are being broken. I would feel the same way if somebody beat me by course cutting, or using a bike with a motor, or anything else that fell outside the rules and offered a significant advantage (I wouldn’t get too upset by losing to somebody wearing non-UCI compliant socks though). If you disagree with the rules of cycling then either campaign to get them changed or go do another sport where you can take part legally.
You don’t know who is doping. It’s not like they wear armbands so you let them pass you and go, “Oh, that’s OK, I’m not really racing him.”
This is why the majority who are clean do care about the few that dope. If I knew rider X, Y, and Z were all on EPO, yeah, I wouldn’t care if they beat me. I’d let them go, and their “wins” would be hollow. But I compete against everyone assuming the playing field is level. And if it isn’t, I’m sorry, that’s just not right - those racers who are secretly enhancing themselves contrary to the rules are defrauding the others in the race.
i really can’t believe this is something that needs to be explained.
Would you to happy to substitute the word doping for ‘course cutting’ or ‘using an ebike’ in your argument? Both equally cheating in my view.
I understand how you guys view this but the way I see it and I’m sure the rest of the world that isn’t competing, there are 10 people at the front competing and everyone else is participating.
Do your friends ask if you won? Or do they ask if you finished? Did you have fun?
Even the people who make the rules don’t care enough to enforce the rules for the majority. Maybe, just maybe the winner might get tested.
Heck, at the top there are armies fighting both sides of the line and the people who are supposed to be enforcers are in league with the athletes. The IOC, WADA all the other agencies turn the other way and embolden the stars. They make a lot of money and hide behind a facade of governance and laugh at all the amateurs who are so enigmatic about the sanctity of sports.
Course cutting? Only time people care is if a record is broken or if someone goes all Magnum PI to uncover it. And that led to someone committing suicide.
What will you do in 50 years when there is genetic manipulation? No drugs no nothing. The person is engineered to be a world class athlete. That person has a normal DNA as far as you and I concerned, will pass all the tests, and break records with ease. He is born for it and he has no fault in the matter.
Until then I want to race bikes with my mates, without any of them doing sneaky shit behind my back to try beat me. Mates don’t do that.
I race mtb and cx by the way. It’s kinda one big happy family round here. Even Nationals are pretty friendly.
@Alen is just trolling this topic. No amount of explaining is going to help.
Maybe a little TRT won’t make a winner but if anyone has seen the Icarus documentary then you know that the doping gains can be significant.
Yes, but we would be in the ten at the front if they all weren’t juiced up…that’s the point!
(at least that’s what I tell myself anyway 
)
True story. Seen it first-hand. Wife assisted in “random” drug testing and was explicitly told “not to test that one.” (the strongest one)
No further comment on the rest.
Just wanted to verify publicly that that’s exactly how it works. The anecdote I cited above is in alignment with a dozen other things I know to be true all of which provide strong circumstantial evidence of rampant “blind eye” syndrome caused by “same-league” issues @alen mentions, in virtually all nations.
“Same-league” and “blind-eye” syndrome are best case scenarios in most countries. Countries I competed against in bobsled absolutely had governing body sponsored programs. I’m not talking about Russia.
PS.
Where do I sign up?
The problem is a matter of fairness. I personally don’t care what someone uses on their own. Do you! take meth before you ride if it helps you…
But racing, we all go into it thinking we’re competing on the same playing field. And it isn’t a level playing field if someone is doping.
Others have explained this better than I can. At this point, if you’re defending doping at the amateur level, I assume its because you are doping at the amateur level.
The only excuse I see for it is if you have a legit medical reason to take something. If I had low testosterone and was depressed, suicidal, whatever, I would use TRT. I should still be able to race, and I would. But doing this simply for gains, that is not fair, and if you defend it, you are a cheater.
I consider that argument pretty disingenuous. There are plenty on people competing as hard as they can (within the constraints of their lives) to do as well as they can. People compare PBs, discuss what Cat they’re in, whether they finished in the top 10. People put stock in their achievements. That’s the motivation for the cheaters. Dopers (amateur or not) are trying to take a shortcut to achieve those kudos. It isn’t meaningless to them.
Look at Nate going from A4 to A2 in a season. He put the work in, and is rightly proud of the accomplishment. A member of my Tri Club manage to qualify for the Ironman World Champs this year. A huge achievement. It might seem not worth it to you, but it was huge for her.
If I were putting in 20 hours a week to try to qualify for Kona and I found out the guy who pipped me to the qualification spot was doping, I’d be pretty p×ssed. The argument that ‘well he gets to feel better about himself’ would not do much to convince me otherwise. Similarly we’re I trying to get to A1 etc.
Your argument above that good parental stock is a kind of cheating in itself was actually used by a runner here (trying for Olympic qualification) to justify taking EPO. He felt he was working harder than more gifted athletes, and, that he was just redressing the imbalance. He got suddenly a lot more contrite after he realised he wasn’t winning any friends with that argument.
I spent ages typing out a reply, and then I see your reply😂.
Many of the sporting bodies in Western countries seem completely corrupt. Here our football, cycling and Olympic councils have all been involved in scandal. Suits just milking the organisation for money and using medals etc to gloss over issues.
Sorry, but I disagree. By all means take it under those circumstances…but don’t race! There are pros and cons of all decisions and if ill then taking TRT to help will have lots of pros…but in my view you then accept the con of not being able to race.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I don’t know the pros and cons of TRT, but if I had a heart condition and took medicine that kept me alive, but could be abused by people with a healthy heart for performance gains, I wouldn’t feel bad for taking this drug and racing.
Why shouldnt he be able to race if the governing body gives him a TUE?
If you got a TUE, you shouldn’t. If you just show up and race like nothing is going on, then you’re cheating.
Now, we can go all day back and forth about why anyone should care. Frankly, if you can’t relate, then maybe you should just respect the opinions of those who DO care and not try to convince us why we shouldn’t care about fair play.
Oh…
I know what you did here.
And no no no no!
The guy was called out for what he was. A cheater. He cut courses MULTIPLE TIMES.
He loved the attention when people though he was legit fast.
Then people realized he was a fraud, and suddenly he couldn’t live with it?
Sorry, no one forced him to end his life. He could have lived as happy as fraud as he was living when people though he was for real. Personal choice. Do not blame others.
Context:
There is a guy who runs a website and investigate people cheating on races.
https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/
In 2019 he investigated Frank Meza and his multiple races where he cut and cheated.
He was claiming age course records.
After he was uncovered as a fraud, he could no longer live with the shame and he decided to end his life.
I do not blame the person who found he was cheating.
If you cheat, be ready for the blow back.
If you cant live with the potential fallout… dont cheat… 
Shall we draw a line under this discussion now? Shelve it and move on?
Head back to more wholesome discussions elsewhere on this generally very good natured forum. 
Different arguement. If have a TUE then not cheating and no issue with someone racing … That wasn’t really what was said though. To me it’s a clear balck and white issue. If take a banned sustance for any reason at all and no TUE and race then doping/cheating. Don’t race is my view.