Allaphilipe's round non aero bars

Equipment
42

Of course there are differences albeit they are minuscule. I wasn’t just referring to the aero marketing, the weight and stiffness marketing also has people losing their minds.

The breakaways aren’t due to the bikes IMO…. it’s the recent emphasis on positioning. Within the last couple of years there have been numerous comparisons in positions and I’ve noticed some individuals have gone from riding on the hoods to having a flat back, more stretched out, and being in the drops or with bent elbows on the hoods.

:slight_smile:

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43

You seem to be arguing in agreement, but ok this is the internet.

Given that everyone has the ability to “optimise the package” they have available given the constraints that are present to everyone. I’m surprised there aren’t more obviously optimised individuals in the pro peloton, a handful of names come to mind, but it seems there should be more that are looking to do this.

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The aerofly bars have been available to everyone at DQS for years now. Alaphilippe has used those same PRO round bars for at least 2 years. Also if you look at his teammate Remco Evenepoel, he is racing the PRO aero bar version. I don’t think it’s availability.

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In terms of position I do think that the type of rider is a factor as is the sheer mileage these guys do. If you’re a climber who expects to spend minimal time in the wind other than at relatively slow speeds, then it’s probably not worth making any comfort or power compromises to get more aero. And maybe an optimised position that works fine for ~10 hours/week just isn’t sustainable for some riders when it comes to getting through a grand tour.

Also possible of course that some teams and riders are just set in their ways! Always amazed at the number of GC contenders who appear to have barely even ridden their TT bike over the winter, let alone taken it to a wind tunnel.

Don’t think any of this applies to Alaphilippe though. Looks pretty aero, and the amount of time he spends in small or solo breaks would certainly make it a priority for him. Guess those bars just work well for him.

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46

With regards to comfort, I’ve ridden both and I’m fine with either, what I wouldn’t be fine with is having to put out an extra 5 watts compared to someone with aero road bars. I don’t know, I’d love to see a test where they tested bars with a rider on the bike. That new Ribble bike with the bars with a wider section in the front essentially breaking the wind for the rider makes me think that the less aero the bars, the more they break the wind for the rider thereby negating the downside of them being less aero!

47

Note how you don’t see any charts/graphics or comparison tests for road bars out there. You just see from companies like Zipp who says “saves 6.2 watts”. I wonder whether current windtunnels even have the resolution to test down to 5 watts. Is the margin of error greater?

The Ribble bike is interesting but does Ribble have the deep pockets to really pull off something revolutionary? Or do they just throw it in CFD software and call it good?

I’ve also been wondering how many watts one loses from an aero road bar after you put a GPS head unit out front.

Silca socks might be a better aero investment than road bars.

48

Not sure if anyone posted, these are the fastest current aero bars from Specialized:

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My understanding is that DQS is sponsored directly by Shimano and hence Pro. Therefore they doesn’t receive complete bike from Specialized and this is why they are all riding with Pro handlebars. They used to have Pro stem as well, but with the new SL7 it looks like they use the one from Specialized.

With the weight of JA’s bike at 7.2kg as in the video linked above, the choice to use round bar might just be to reduce weight.

Personally I ride an Pro vibe aero handlebar and it is not very rigid. If my specialty was out of the saddle attack at 800+watts, I would certainly consider a stiffer bar.

50

this is what I was thinking. He was in the wind a bit longer because of where he chose to attack, but otherwise, he’s in the draft 95% of the time.

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51

This may come as a shock to… many, or nobody.

Pro’s are generally, incredibly entrenched in their process. Bikes included. Yes, riders like Adam Hansen and Dan Bigham are open to anything. However, most are not. Miles from it.

I’ve met a few pros. Their bikes all had round bars at the time, because ‘they hated aero bars’, horribly uncomfortable’ their words.

If you think aero bars are not a benefit over round bars, regardless of testing with or without rider, you need to seriously brush up on your aerodynamics reading.

They are faster, significantly in fact. Interestingly, it’s most of the advantage of aero bikes over round tube bikes. That fact was glossed over by the BS marketing of said super aero bikes when they arrived.

Given it’s usually 5 to 8 watts saving at approx 45kph, it would have helped Julian over his final 18km TT to the finish. How much, maybe 5 to 6 secs, at the very most. So, I imagine he prefers round bars, like many older pros. Particularly climbers. Or, maybe he really did want to save those 50g. That seems unlikely, but who knows.

I imagine it was just his preference.

Would he have been faster with aero bars. Yes. Would it have been measurable. Yes. Would he have have won by more time?

Ah, there’s the interesting bit. Maybe not, maybe he did 5w less while he was TTing on the flat bits, but did the same speed anyway.

The point, it didn’t matter either way. He made the difference on a climb. So it’s his w/kg that got him the separation.

Julian himself said, he was in no way planning an 18km solo to win. If he was, he may have gone full Taco Tuesday and turned into an aero nerd :grin:

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52

I’m not sure writing that aero bars are faster in bold makes it so. Do you have a link for a study that tests standard bars with a rider on the bike vs aero bars?

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53

I ride aero bars because they look cool, no other reason. I also ride 50/60 aero wheels despite living in a hilly area because I like the look of them.

I’m not fast enough to base my upgrade decisions on anything other than ‘does it look cool’ and it keeps me happy enough.

10 Likes
54

Given that Dan Bigham rides for the team they sponsor and is acknowledged as one of the most knowledgeable guys in the business in terms of what’s aero, you’d hope that there’s some pretty solid data informing that design. I do think that with technology like 3D printing becoming mainstream it’s become much more affordable for smaller companies to just prototype and test different ideas to see what works. Not so much on frames maybe, but certainly on components like bars.

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Do you have a link to that study for the savings of aero bars with rider?

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Ribble, I think, do have access to some deep pockets. I believe they are backed by some of the same investors as Zwift (hence being able to get a Ribble bike in Zwift). Probably most of the work was done in CFD - and some validation in the wind tunnel, probably with a mannequin not a riding rider.

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I think it’s not just the pros - it’s the team management, mechanics, support staff etc. There is amongst some setups a surprisingly old school mindset. I mean to ride faster you need to ride harder right? If you’ve not ridden hard enough then tomorrow is a 5 hour punishment ride - recovery - do it on your own time. Equally on the other end of the spectrum - some setups are too experimental (not with equipment but training - and that has a negative effect).

Given the French team manager is Voeckler - there is no surprise they started to attack early to shake things up. I think that’s part of the genius of the French team at the moment - a star and a manger that see eye to eye on how to ride.

58

I agree that the aero stuff looks pretty cool. Cool = Fast!

:slight_smile:

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59

This is a reply to you but anybody with experience I’d love to hear their thoughts on the stiffness of aero bars compared to round. I ride the aerofly 2 bars (S-works not Roval), and I don’t think I’d consider them that flexy on big efforts (1,000W+). Are they known to be stiffer or are the Pro bars known to be flexy? Are lighter bars like Darimo or Schmoke flexy?

I ask because I’m considering going back to round bars. I prefer round bars when riding long climbs, just not a fan of the flat tops of aero bars. That and saving weight are the upsides, the downsides being less aero. I rarely race so I’m not too worried about that.

But I’m afraid of going to a super light bar or bar/stem combo and ending up with something too flexy. The new Darimo integrated cockpit looks nice, as well as the Bontrager, and each would save a decent amount over the tarmac SL7 stem/aerofly combo. I’m on the bigger side at 85kg and can put out decent sprints around 1500W, so I want stiffness. Are aero bars generally considered flexy, or to the point it’s noticeable.

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I don’t think it is due to the Aero component but the fact that the bar is in carbon. Carbon can be quite stiff or flexy depending on the design. A round carbon bar could be flexy too while aluminium is usually stiffer.

The Pro Vibe aero bar is one of the lightest aero bar on the market and this might be the reason why it is flexy. Having said that, it is quite comfortable as it absorb well the vibration. I very much like it, but it might be a bit penalising when sprinting.

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People seem to forget these are humans with strategies racing. I would wager that aero bars do not matter for 99% of situations in road racing. Of course you can’t be completely non-optimized, but we are talking specifically about aero bars.

If JA did not win, I can guarantee you he wouldn’t be regretting having round bars. He would be assessing why his strategy did not work. Or, he would recognize that whomever beat him had better legs on that day. Similarly, other riders are not thinking “I would have closed the gap if I knew JA had round bars!” Or, imagine seeing his attack, knowing you don’t have the legs to keep up, but thinking “He has round bars so I can use 7 less watts than him and I will win!”

Again, like I said, you cannot be completely non-optimized, but these are humans. It is likely better to have round bars and a better head space than aero bars that might cause frustration and a bad head space.

Personally, I recently did a gravel race where I put a water bottle in my back pocket. I hated it. It was ruining my race to the point where I threw it away at a rest stop.

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