AI FTP Detection Update

I’ve you’ve been training recently just go.

We have a feature in auto that if you come back after a while we’ll trigger a detection. :tada: :tada: :tada:


Yes, I understand. I probably did a poor job of explaining in my post as to why someone that uses TrainNow to primarily supplement outside rides would find having the next available date to access the manual detect more prominently displayed useful. Best.

Good writeup however I’m a little confused. Could you please confirm you will still support the current 3 methods of updating FTP?

  • AI FTP (with the auto / manual debate and questionnaire in your post above)
  • accept/reject results from TR ramp, 8-min, and 20-min
  • manual adjustment from some other test/estimate (lab test, 30+ min long test, etc.) or device (e.g. Garmin FTP estimate)



Can I still reject the FTP adjustments?

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This will roll out would pair nicely with taking outside rides/races into account with PL :wink:.


Two questions:

  • Are you planning on some type of hysteresis so that minor perceived / detected fluctuations in FTP (e.g., FTP goes up / down 1 watt, or some minor amount) don’t actually lead to a recommendation to change FTP? If not, please consider this. If you are, how are you thinking of setting this “no change zone”? Absolute (e.g., +/- 10 watts) or relative (e.g., +/- 3% of FTP)?
  • For people who aren’t using Plan Builder, how are you planning on figuring out if bumping FTP or extending PL is the better course of action? Based off of Events? What happens if someone doesn’t have an event? For example, I’m coming back from C19, I’m taking it slow with just easy endurance rides, and I have zero events planned. At this point I’m just taking it day by day to see when I can start to ramp training back up.

I was going to ask what happens if you take a week(s) off (for any reason).Then I remembered that PL is a sliding scale already so pseudo-auto.

Has there been any advancements with including outdoor rides for these assesments?

Love what the team is concocting.

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Heck yes!!!


Great questions!!

Auto takes into account small bumps. Manual is…Manual. So that just gives you whatcha got.

We’ve thought about doing different setting or goals for auto on PB. But also we can do things like watt/kg, age, and experience

My opinion is if you’re brand new to cycling and 1.5 watt/kg, we can probably ramp your FTP faster for better results.

If you’ve been training and racing for 10 years and have been around the same FTP for years, then maybe it’s time to focus more on PLs.

Of course there’s other nuance in there and that’s where the devil is. But auto gives us a pretty flexible system.

The dream would be we could build ML that would choose when to increase time in zone, rest, or raise your ftp. That’s a bit off though and right now we’re using logic based rules.


Outside is already part of the assessments for AI FTP.

It won’t be part of the post ride “hook” where you might see an increase until we get WLV2 out (I think…)

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This really begs for an advanced setting where the user could bias the system either towards FTP gains or towards PL gains.

I don’t think you could ever get to a “pure” ML system, as that would require knowing a riders multi-year goals / aspirations. E.g., for me, at some point I’d like to do the Oregon Trail Gravel Grinder. If a ML system knew that was a goal / aspiration of mine to do within say the next 3 years, and I’d prioritize it over events between now and then, the system might prescribe a completely trade-off of increasing FTP vs. increasing PL.

Right now (or when I think I’m okay to start seriously training again), especially trying to come back from COVID, I’d prioritize raising my FTP over PL. But say 8 months prior to when I’d theoretically do the Oregon Trail Gravel Grinder, I’d prioritize increasing PL over increasing FTP.



A slider as one of the questions during Plan Builder would be useful. Hours, Experience, FTP->PL.

Also, the colour for annotations thing just came out. Pretty impressed with the speed of picking up the suggestion and implementation.

I don’t want to be prompted after every workout to change my FTP. I’m already prompted often enough to “adapt plan.” Every dang day for an eFTP change is kind of silly. How would that interact with the PLs?

Learn more, document, validate, then expand the triggers, please.

Call me curmudgeon, I trust big data in a population set, but I don’t trust AT enough after FTP changes when it compares to “knowing myself” to double down and trust AT after every single workout. To quote everyone on the podcast, “Maybe you had a bad day” or “maybe everything went right and…”

I don’t want to have to reject stuff after every planned/workout ride. I already have to accept or decline adaptations often enough.

But not for PL, yet, right?

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Workout Levels version 2

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  • The AI FTP will not actually be offered after each and every workout.

TR will look at your history each time and take all it’s calculations into account, and then decide IF this time is an appropriate time to offer a new FTP.

  • If it’s not enough to trigger a new FTP, you won’t see anything different.
  • If it is enough to trigger a new FTP, that’s when it will be offered.
  • Right, not until Workout Level Version 2 is released.
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Doing tests is not easy (doing the test can wear you out for the workouts and doing the workout can wear you out to be able to test well, etc) so very hard to have continuous testing influence how the workouts should go.

Xert sort of does continuous testing in that your fitness signature can change at any moment and workouts are based on your fitness signature but don’t think anything else does this

So what is expected in this update? Did I miss a thread or communication somewhere? Is this unstructured outdoor rides?

This should be part of plan builder. Not have the user pick ftp vs pl levels, but have a way to pick the type of riding you want to improve at. Not the drop down that it has now but more a multi question form. I mean sure, a racer preparing for a certain type of race could get by with a simple answer, but the rest of us should be able to pick between sprint and endurance for what you care about more.

Once the system can analyze outdoor rides maybe present the user with a list of their hard rides so they can pick which they want to get better at. Maybe allow marking rides on the calendar for ones you want to improve on.