Adaptive Training Closed Beta Update

The ramp hasn’t added 4 points to your SS in that it now thinks you’re suddenly better at SS - what it’s doing is saying that you were presumably recently completing SS workouts at PL X when your FTP was set higher, so now your FTP is set lower you should be able to complete workouts with a correspondingly higher PL. I.e., it thinks you’ll be able to complete harder SS workouts with relation to your new FTP.

Whether 4 points is appropriate I’ve no idea but I guess their dataset is big enough to suggest it is…

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Does anyone know if adaptive training will work with the experimental polarized plans? I’m trying to plan my off-season training out and willing to try the 6 week block of polarized?

From my general understanding of how adaptive training works, it seems that you have to be using a plan based from plan builder which leads me to ask, can you choose to do a polarized block from plan builder?

No, the experimental polarised plans are not adaptive.

Going by:

Yes

Just wanted to share what I’ve learned about the way moving future workouts and adaptations work together. I’ve been in AT beta since late May. Long story short, at the time I’ve joined it I’ve had to re-build my current plan with PB but then needed to move all of the future scheduled workouts 1 week backwards. That’s been done by simply dragging and dropping each individual workout. And I’m still getting adaptation prompts for the workouts schdduled in the future even though they have been previously moved (i.e. re-scheduled) manually.

This is what I’ve got from TR support:

In conclusion, when I had scheduled your General Build - Low Volume Training Plan on your Calendar, moving those Workouts back by one week (via dragging and dropping) didn’t disassociate those Workouts from Plan Builder, and subsequently, Adaptive Training. Your Workouts will only disassociate with your Plan Builder plan if the entire Training Plan gets deleted (resulting in those future Workouts being “duplicated”).

In short, Illya, you can completely customizing your Training Plan however you want – future Workouts and everything, and you will still be prompted with future Workout adaptations. So long as you don’t delete your Training Plan (which, I have no fear that you would be doing so), then you can drag and drop tomorrow’s Workout to today, and vice-versa with a sense of ease knowing that you will still be prompted with adaptations to your Workouts (so long as our machine learning and AI sees it fit).

One thing that doesn’t work is if I try to change my default training days using PB functionality. That would duplicate all of the future workouts (that were previously moved using “drag and drop” manual process).

Hope this helps to clarify things for other users as well :slightly_smiling_face:

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Another thing that I’ve learned is about responding to the workout surveys. I’ve marked one of the recent workouts La Dama Blanca as “Very Hard”. TBH, it was borderline “All out” for me - really tough, although I’ve completed all intervals as designed. The workout level was Threshold 4.7. The AT proposed to reduce next week’s workout to 3.0, followed by 3.5 week after.

So I’ve asked support why do I’m getting proposed such a big reduction. That was the response:

What’s happening here is the survey response “very hard” resulting in the Adaptive Training system default to picking a lower level workout for you. When responding “very hard” workout - the system will knock back the next workout in the same workout zone and feed you an easier workout instead of continuing to progress according to your current Progression Levels.

We understand that this might be a little bit confusing and the team is actually looking to address the issue in amendments to the post-workout survey.

In the meantime, you can of course, manually choose a workout that is closer to your 4.7 Threshold Progression Level if you do feel good.

Haven’t decided what I’m going to do. Might go “half way” and pick an alternate option around 4.0…

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Yes they do. You have to create a training plan and then go into each block and change the base/build blocks to polarized. I was going to use them as my bike workouts for triathlon training before a recurring running injury derailed that plan.

I am about to do 2 weeks of unstructured/relax training…
No power goals, no pace goals… just clearance of my mind

How should i handle this with the training plan/AT?

  • This reads to me like you really should not have a hard plan in place.

I would think using TrainNow at most would make sense, if you are trying to keep more loose adherence to a basic training pattern, but not be locked into anything specifically. You can pluck something from TN or simply ride free however you want and play it by ear until you are ready to step back in to a full plan with a specific training goal or event in mind.

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Well, Thing is that I am on the middle of a plan. (Build for a 70.3)
But I feel the need for some reset. My plan is just to ride outside for pleasure and enjoyment instead of training for an specific thing.

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Again, I would ditch the plan entirely. Delete it and ride to get your “reset”. Once that is accomplished, redo the Plan Builder with the backdated start and let it fill in the gap.

You could also insert a new “Time Off” Annotation for the time you want “free”. Do your own workouts in that new open space and resume the plan after.

Or just ignore the current plan and still do your own thing until you want to pick up the existing plan again.

Any of those 3 (and likely other options) could all work.

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Last week I mentioned I was looking back over my past month and providing an overview to TR support. As background, I’ve had email exchanges with a rotating group of TR support personnel (mostly in a single now-loooong thread per their request) so have been working issues pretty much as they come up.

I am using PB (LV rolling road race) with no specific events; mostly working from the web but occasionally the Win desktop beta app. All my workouts are outdoors, from the TR catalog as directed by PB (with very occasional ‘free rides’ since I’m focusing on getting the most for TR/AT), and all done via Garmin (no TP or Strava links). I do add additional workouts from time to time, and most workouts are longer than as scheduled. A large proportion exceed the interval targets, some substantially so. So here is the summary I provided support today:

I have to say as I look back over the past month, it appears that I’m not getting much value by participating in the Beta. As shown in the attached pdf, of the 19 workouts I completed, only 10 appeared to perform as designed (PL recognition, adaptations,etc). Of the other 9, 2 had no result because they were unstructured outdoor rides (which is the state of AT development, I get that but it still leaves a gap). The 7 remaining technology “fails” all were done as outdoor workouts on a Garmin.

My concern is that my potential progress may be hindered as PLs I believe I “earned” are not showing, and therefore following workouts are at lower difficulty levels than may be optimal for my training. In a few cases I used alternates to grab something more challenging, but the hoopla around AT isn’t yet reality for me – I find I have to really think hard (and maybe overthink) workout choices that in theory AT should be handling.

So, I’m very open to advice on what I might do differently to get the best out of TR/AT in the Garmin/outdoor world, tested/tried and true/best practices (which a number of us have asked for in forum) and what TR can tell me so I can have more confidence that continuing to participate in the AT beta is an optimal choice for improving my performance.

TR TA results June 2021.pdf (561.6 KB)

Open to any and all counsel from those of you who have this AT Beta stuff, particularly outdoor workouts via Garmin, working more smoothly than it appears is my case.

It is a beta, and outside workouts are being worked on and not ready for primetime. My advice would be to figure out a plan B, and be patient until some of the outside workout issues are resolved.

Did the 7 fails happen sometime after June 1st? I believe reports of issues with Garmin outside workouts appeared earlier the week of June 7th, or the prior week. As I understand it, the issue reported on this thread was that a) ML can be too strict with outdoor workouts, b) leading to a fail and “why did you struggle?” survey, and c) which results in no PL updating. The bug being that PL updating only works on TR outside workouts that are deemed as pass. Hope I got that right.

I was accepted into the beta on or around Wednesday June 9th. Did my first TR outside workout on June 11th, and received the fail survey. Reported that I did not struggle, and then no PL updating. Which I believe is due to the bug mentioned above.

FWIW well before I was in the beta, back in February, I was syncing TrainingPeaks workouts to both TR and Garmin and TR correctly classified the original TP workout, and after completing the workout displayed progression info:

that was February.

This is now:

and the calendar tile showing this:

image

I’m sure it will all come together “soon”

At first glance, your results look pretty similar to mine.

Why do you consider all the “+0.0” productive rides (like pioneer -3 on the 17th) to be fails? Did you get the failed workout survey?

I’m glad you’ve posted this as I’ve just come into the beta, did my first indoor this morning with the how did you find it survey, then an outdoor workout this evening with AT results survey stating I’d basically failed. I suspect its as I paused during a rest interval in the main set to navigate some road furniture. Gutted that my anaerobic level hasn’t gone up with a breakthrough session that I found somewhat hard.

On the “failed” survey, select the options “I didn’t fail” or whatever the text is and you get the pass survey. I’ve had the fail survey a couple of times because of similar circumstances to yourself.

Good question. I can be clearer. I think I used the language “tech fails” meaning that AT/TR isn’t working as it is supposed to. When I have a workout at a difficulty level which exceeds my current PL for an energy system, and complete it successfully (meeting/exceeding interval targets) I should be getting a PL increase to whatever the difficulty level is for that workout. When I get a +0.0 increase the process is not working as is should be.

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I got the “struggle” survey after outside workouts yesterday, chose “didn’t struggle” then “moderate” on how did it feel. Sweet spot PL still dropped 3.5 or something like that. Not a big drama but have emailed support about it as I don’t think that’s the intended behaviour. But maybe good news as it seems like outside workouts do have an effect on PL’s.

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Some hiccup with my use of the forum. Some times I’m seeing my response to Sam-O, sometimes is shows (post deleted by author). Apologies if this is a redundant post:

Unfortunately, inconsistently. Some do, some do not appear to be recognized within AT.

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Thanks for sharing this. I had the same: I marked a “Stretch” VO2max workout as “hard” (they are always hard, or ;-)) and the system didn’t adapt my following workouts. My VO2max level though is way above the progression level being recognized by AT hence I expected adaptations. Changing the response to “moderate” than triggered the adaptations to the level where I am.

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