Lots of good hydration advice from @BCM , the temps in the afternoon can be completely unpredictable (regardless of forecast) and I’m a big fan of carrying an empty bottle or 2 to help with “flex” hydration. I run a pack all day (swap to a fresh one at twin lakes in both directions), but always pick up an empty bottle at twin lakes inbound. If it’s cool as you pass through pipeline area and you still have fluids, you don’t need to stop. Same goes for carter depending on how you are doing on fluids. You can get a bottle filled in seconds at neutral aid, but you can burn time if having to mess with a pack.
This is my first year running a bike that can take 2 bottles and I’ve considered ditching the pack to save a little weight. But I’m so accustom to running a pack that I hesitate to make the switch. And there are a lot of spots where I’d drink from a pack, but wouldn’t risk grabbing a bottle. But it’s a very do-able race running 2 bottles if that’s what you are comfortable with. The only stretch you might be pushing it with 2 bottles is from the pipeline aid area to carter if it gets hot. Even with 2 full bottles, that can be a tough stretch. The final road climb up to carter can be an oven on tired legs. There are often folks handing up coke/water/cold towels on that section, but I wouldn’t 100% count on them being there.
I run carbs in my pack, and 2x 700ml bottles (hi-carb & no sugar electrolyte) so Start to Twin lakes I’ll run at most 1.5l in the pack out of a max of 3l. and re provision at twin lakes as needed. Is it too much? probably, but I’m not going to top off that 3l at the start no matter how much of a water hog I am.
One thing to think about - have you thought about what you’ll do if it’s cold again?
I drank maybe 1 - 1.5L in the first three hours to the Dam last year, still had to stop to take a leak at the top of Powerline and right after Twin Lakes Dam. If carbs were in my pack, I would have been faced with - overhydrate to get adequate fuel and have to stop multiple more times, or drink to thirst and under-fuel.
I have a friend who didn’t think this through, when all liquid fuel, and way, way underfueled because of how cold it was, bonked and came in maybe an hour or more slower than he could have.
The other side to that, if it’s really hot and your stomach goes south, you want at least some liquid hydration that has at least a lower amount of carbs…
I haven’t had the “Bonk” side of this yet, I have had the stomach issues as it gets REAL hot in training and I trend towards dehydration, and I’ve had the over-hydrate in the cold and have to pee 6 or 7 times in a 100K race.
I’m working with a sports nutritionist that’s local to the area (Brek) So their input will be key on this point. I’m not doing all liquid, in fact the stuff in the hydro pack is diluted from a carb standpoint, but still trickling them in, where the eat prompts are still the que to eat something real, or as the kids say “smash a gel” Food that actually requires chewing has been a game changer for me on rides over 5 hours.
Whatever you decide on, I’d make up your mind ASAP and make sure you’ve done it on at least a long ride or two in training. Race day definitely shouldn’t be the first, and taper will start for most of us in about a week or a little more. But, I think the concept of some degree of separation between fuel and hydration for the reasons above is a good one.
I personally don’t like anything solid. Harder to digest and absorb so actually increases the chance of stomach discomfort. Gel or Liquid for me 100%. During the race, it’s 100% gel with one every 20 minutes and I just tell myself that it’s not an option to “want” something else.
+1000 on this. I don’t count on many of my calories mixed with hydration, particularly at a race like leadville where weather can chance in minutes. I ended up peeing 4-5 times last year and that was me drinking at less than 50% of the rate I normally do for the second half of the race.
And I see folks doing chews and solid food at leadville, but that’s a complete non-starter for me. It’s all gel/syrup for fuel. I’m breathing so hard all day that I feel like I’m suffocating just taking a quick drink from my hydration pack. There is no way I could chew anything during the vast majority of that race. I could probably pull it off on a couple of the road descents where you get a break, but those are few and far between.
Yep, we’ve been working on this since mid-May and tuning it over the last 2 months. Tahoe Trail will be the last race to give it a check under battle conditions. It won’t be as cold at the start as Leadville, but will push this as a 7 hour eating plan. It’s figuring out what to do to get me over 5 that took the most time.
Learning how to best fuel oneself is 1) very individual 2) Can be a lot of work 3) MEGA worth the effort [and money] I’ve invested in it.
Interesting the 2024 SR50 spotted 5 minutes for Red-Orange corrals. The winning time was 20 minutes faster this year than last year. My 4:58 was 93rd this year, but would have been 85th last year.
Missed Red by 3 minutes, but I have to believe I’m better suited for Green!
Did some time/pacing analysis from last year’s results! Was able to manually find Strava times for Outward bound/Lost Canyon Road (in Blue). Deleted names, but the cells have the color of the starting corral, and chip time-avg mph. I used a loose average for my possible goal times of 8:30/8:45/9:00. I’m around 200lbs, and definitely descend better than I climb. Feel free to use for your own strategies. I’ll be sharing this with my crew, and using it to help plan my nutrition/hydration strategies.
Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Did you do anything special to estimate the outward bound singletrack change or just ballpark it?
My understanding is that they were going to bring someone in to make a proper trail rather than just sending us through the grass/dirt, but I haven’t heard anything more about it. I believe it’s only 2.4 miles of singletrack, but I’d assume it will add at least a couple minutes since it’s dirt rather than road. My biggest concern on that change is how it could change the dynamic of groups sorting out heading to twin lakes. That’s the exact spot where groups typically get rolling fast and it could be a little tricky if it’s not possible to pass in that new singletrack section. Might create a choke point like on the other single track section where a single person can hold up a bunch of others. Not a huge deal since it’s such a short section, but I hope they make it possible to safely pass in that section. They are using outward bound at the stage race next week, so we should have a better idea coming out of that.
I hope they will let us know exactly where the aid station will be, but I used the outbound time at the green spot, and the inbound time at the Purple spot for both places. It may be off by a few minutes, but will hopefully give a decent estimate.
Yeah, that should be close enough for the aid station. Technically, it’s probably worth adding a minute or so to everything after the single track outbound (and another minute after the singletrack inbound). But that’s going to be close.
Yep, I kind of treat it as acclimation and course recon.
Yes, all good if it’s helpful. And those were target times rather than actuals. I pace a little hot on the front end to get ahead of traffic and to also give some buffer for a big buckle if I have a mechanical at some point. I was just reviewing split times from my 2 sub 9 finishes (2021 an 2023) and it’s pretty crazy how consistent they were. From the start until twin lakes inbound, every one of my splits was within a couple minutes of each other (except pipeline was way off both ways, must have been a different location on the timing mat). Last year, I was about 8 minutes faster than 2021, but pretty much all that time was made up inbound after twin lakes. Much cooler last year and favorable winds inbound. NP was 1 watt lower in 2023, so basically the same power. Actually, I think I was a bit fitter last year also, but didn’t go quite as deep knowing the course and knowing I had a decent buffer to get in under 9. Actual splits for my 2 sub 9 years :;-
I have road by outward bound the last two weekends preriding the course and I have no idea where that single track will be. Where it shows on my Garmin is just a big field and there is a gate on both sides where I am thinking you will enter/exit. Maybe they will mow the grass short to make the trail?Doing both the Stage Race and 100 so will find out soon.
I should cross check mine from where I missed by 18 minutes. I suspect it was all on the back end when I freaked out because I’d forgotten to pick up my food from my helper.
Fuelling related, is everyone basically using Maurten these days? I’ve used it a couple of times, but my rides tend to be much longer (14h+) so no need to worry too much about fuelling for flat out pace / having time to eat.
SIS Beta Fuel is the same 1:0.8 and is cheaper, I’ve used that as well as Maurten without issue. They have a 200g caffeinated gel that I use too because I like the extra caffeine.
During training I mix my own Maltodextrin / Fructose / Sodium Citrate too because it’s cheaper. With the caveats I posted above why I like gels for events and big / important training rides.
Maurten is expensive though, I think it cost me about $140 during the race last year in just gels
To be honest, the thing is costing me well in excess of $5k to do anyway (I’m from the UK), so I might as well go all out if I have to. Still considering buying some last minute bike bits too.
I’m not going to get rid of my usual Camelbak of water, but I am considering running with a “fuel bottle” to get a regular supply of calories. I’d use the gels but I always struggle to actually get the things into me (I’m terrible at riding no handed and can’t seem to get everything out of the gel with a single hand!). More often than not I just use shot bloks as they’re really easy to eat on the go.
