Interesting though as Jared Graves has talked about riding XC bikes with proper XC tires to make him a faster rider as it forces you to take better lines and use skills better. I personally think you’re forced to use skills on a short travel bike compared to being able to mask them on a big bike. However if you’re lacking confidence, a big travel bike will definitely instill that and let you push hard and send some big stuff if you’re not used to doing so.
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I love the Aspen front and rear in mn.
In South Dakota I ran ardent race front and rear as it’s very gnarly terrain out there.
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Not necessarily true. With this theory, you aren’t taking into account that your speed will be greatly reduced if you’re hammering through stuff vs. Searching for smoothest line.
Every rock and root takes x Km/h off your speed that you would then need to spend energy to gain back through re-acceleration. Plus you’re reaccelerating a heavier FS bike.
I’m not saying that FS bikes don’t have their place (they do) just saying your ‘shortest distance between two points is a straight line’ argument is garbage. Even DH racers know this and they carry the most amount of suspension of all disciplines.
Just think about it for a second…this is just logic
I don’t disagree, my point was that under-biking forces you to be smart with line choice, FS bikes allow you to be lazy.
I’ve listened to the podcast and recall the part you’ve mentioned…as a concept under-biking has been around for decades and it’s commonly accepted that if you’re riding less bike than you’d need for a given terrain, then skill needs to bridge the gap when suspension can’t get you there.
The longer travel theory is relatively new to me and I haven’t thought through all the pros / cons yet to determine how it would apply to my real-world situation.
I’m not one to adopt something because I heard it on some podcast or because a couple of pros do it. Under-biking works for me and a ton of other regular-joes out there who have been employing this technique for years.
Jury is still out in the long travel bike to built handling skill theory…
I’m sure both over and under biking both give benefits.
What about riding ss to pick up flow?
This isn’t Facebook. We all enjoy this forum, and this thread in particular, without resorting to ball kicking and name calling. “Be excellent to each other” - you can disagree without putting the other person down. Also, all these “theories” on what’s faster off road is pretty pointless. There’s a lot of opinion here on the best tool for the job. Why does it matter if the right tool for you is different than someone else’s?
The correct answer is full suspension. 
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I second this motion. 
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It’s actually not. If you measure speed or time travelling between two points across obstacles then measure speed or time travelling between same two points along the smoothest line, speed will be faster and likely time will be shorter as well for this reason.
If you’re indicating that straight line is always best option and you therefore need a full suspension, I welcome you to spend no time looking for a smooth line, just buy the longest travel bike you can and point it down hill and hold on.
Clearly an exaggeration but done to illustrate a point. Everyone looks for smoothest line because it’s generally faster than to barrel through stuff because you don’t have the skill necessary to ride a HT and seek out correct line.
Yes, great point. Any time you can handicap yourself in training to develop skill, do it!
Moderator hat on:
- Repeated use of terms like “garbage” and adding veiled language bordering on insults is unnecessary and counterproductive.
Take some deep breaths, count to 10 and resume posting with respect that is appropriate, please.
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No insults here. I welcome you to review/reread. Posts specifically crafted to not include any personal insults.
Sorry, I get that you like hard tails. I started on a hard tail and still have some of my fastest uphill KOM’s on my first carbon fiber Stumpjumper. Some of those have withstood thousands of attempts by other riders and many many years. But you are making this seem like anyone that has skills rides a hard tail. Also, you reference the “correct line” which is a rather interesting comment by itself. It’s great you love hard tails. However, I don’t think there is any magic descending potion that gets unlocked because you ride a hard tail for X amount of hours or years. Hard tail lines and “smoothest line” as you call it are many times very different from the lines you would take on a FS and for each bike a different line will represent the fastest line. There are many line choices and each may be the fastest depending on rider speed, ability, suspension travel, suspension compression at the point of entry and many other variables.
Also your comment:
That’s pretty bold. If you have some youtube videos of you standing on an EWS podium I’d love to see them. Otherwise I think sizing up someone’s skill and being condescending based on a few comments on a forum is a bit over the top.
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Let it go mate. Go and ride your bike for an hour.
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I mean, that type of negative assumption about someone is clearly attacking the person instead of the idea.
Maybe we can get back to XC bikes now 
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The fastest way is the shortest straight line between two points, unless there a features about that line that makes you lose speed. When you observe the best enduro and downhill riders, this is the line the best ones take. Like Sam Hill, who is quite famous for always somehow managing to take the “inside line”, where others couldn’t.
Having both an enduro sled, and also a HT with almost exact geometry, I can assure you, if you’re riding a long rock garden, where you cannot avoid bumps/rocks, that not only is the FS more comfortable, it’s also faster
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Huh?
From the forum guidelines:
This is a Place to Learn, Disagree and be Entertained
This is a place to talk about all things bike or triathlon related (including nutrition and weight training).
There are just a few rules.
- Be excellent to each other
2. Attack the idea, not the person - Don’t break the law
- Keep it tidy
I was just pointing out that you said you weren’t insulting people, but that comment seemed like a clear example of attacking the person and not the idea aka insulting the person. Probably shouldn’t have said anything.
I guess I’ll restate: can we get back to XC bikes now? 
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Feel better now?
You too? Hopefully that helped. Feel better now?
That’s enough. Move on to the actual topic discussion.
TR and I are watching this closely and may take more action as needed.
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