Yes to all. And yes to train for your races.
Hi all,
so much interesting thread for me. Last year late October I started for the first time ever with structured training plan to prepare myself for a XCM series in this year. Now I am in the middle of the season and thinking what went good and I need to improve.
I followed the TR recommendation and did the SSB I &II, SPB and XC Marathon specialty - all mid volume. The races are the combination of 60-70km punchy rides with the total climb less than 1000m and some real MTB XCM with total climb well over 2500m of a similar distances. Duration 3 to 5 hours.
What worried me a lot was the last race where I totally failed and was not able to reach the time limit to be allowed to complete the full distance of 62km with 2700m total ascend. I must admit that even if I could reach the limit I would probably give it up, I was so exhausted. The first thing that came to my mind was the terrible heat on the race day (between 30-35C) which could drain me, maybe due to not sufficient hydration (though I tried to keep my drinking intervals stable, 10 to 15 minutes each, mix of isodrink and water).
Now I am also thinking whether the plan I followed is the best combination for the races I planned to do. As said, there are races with short, strong uphills (<5 minutes each), but there are also races like the last one, where I have the combination of long steep uphills (30 to 50 minutes, some parts so heave that I neeeded to get off the bike and walk) followed by steep rocky downhills which does not let you rest enough to prepare for the next hill. Hardly any flat parts to get the rythm and gain some distance with stable tempo. So, I also started to think about more longer rides added to my plan, which could prepare myself physically and mentally for longer efforts. Now, when I read your comments I see that many of you are of the opinion that longer outdoor rides will not help me too much. Different training pattern seems to be the key to success + proper fuelling and hydration.
I need to add that recently I stopped with indoor training (it is way too hot in my attic to do any physical excercise) and switched to outdoor rides fully (99% training on a road bike). Would you recommend any particular workouts or a plan to follow to increase my ability to get along with long lasting, long uphills including, races?
By the way - any tips how to prepare for the special event I am going to participate (in 2 months from now) which is 15km long MTB uphill race with 1000m total ascend (duration expected 1.5h)?
For long sustained climbs. The century plan is better than the XCM for specialty phase.
Although, in my opinion, had you done the century plan for specialty phase, it would not have made a huge difference in your performance in the long MTB race you did. I suspect there may be other things going on:
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What Is the level you are racing at? You mention 60-70km, with 2700m climbing in 3-5 hrs. Translate: 37-44 miles, 9000ft, 3-5 hours. For these distance and elevation, even a 5 hr cutoff is aggressive for a race for the “average cyclist”.
Example: The Leadville Silver Rush race, 50 miles, 7000ft of climbing, all up or down, no flats - the winner will usually have a finish time of 4 hours.
Are these expert/pro level races? If so, training is only a part of the puzzle. You also need to have the right genetics to compete - and if you don’t, no amount of training will make up for it. -
How is your pacing? Did you go out too hard, and bonk as a result?
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nutrition and hydration are really important to get right. In those temps, you probably need to be drinking one liter per hour. Maybe more. And you need to be eating as much as you can stomach for the duration - ideally 4 grams of carbs per kg of bodyweight.
Long rides outdoors can help with both pacing and nutrition plus hydration.
- Were you sufficiently rested? 5 hrs is a long time on the bike and an appropriate taper before is important.
For your next event, 15km, 1000m of climbing, I’d recommend the types of sessions in sustained power build and century plans. Generally threshold sessions, longer VO2 max intervals, and sweet spot.
I think you also need to have clarity on you goals for the race:
- are you trying to win? If so, this also will depend on the ability of the riders you are racing against, and your strength relative to them. If you don’t have the right genetics to compete, you won’t.
- Are you trying to get as fast a time as you are capable of - i.e. the race is more like an individual time trial for you? If so, this is well within your control.
FWIW - here is the profile of the race I did this past week. Seems somewhat similar to your next event.
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Thanks for all your thoughts.
Ad1) To make it clear - I am certainly not a podium racer. I am 43 yo, working full time in the office, making all efforts to follow a structured training plan. As mentioned, this is the first full season when I follow a PLAN. Before I was riding quite often, distances differed from year to year. In the meantime gained some bodyweight and then fortunately lost it. So now I think I am close to my optimal weight (65kg at 169cm height, BMI could be probably better, but historically this is close to my PB), FTP/kg in the range 3.8-4W
The benchmark I had from one of my past races of a similar profile was the 150% of the winner’s time. The race I failed was won in 3h 29m. The guy who made it you can call a pro rider (probably on of the country’s top MTB racers, as the series I compete in is also the country’s most respectable one). Given I could repeat my performance, my ETA could be in a range of 5h 30m-6h or something close to it. This race I found one of the two hardest in the entire series. The profile of is indeed similar to yours (this is only 65% of the planned distance as I was forced to finish earlier).
The special event I added to my racing calendar is 15km long uphill with hardly any flat nor downhill sections. So, looks like ideal to replicate on indoor trainer - I will need to push the pedals all time long through 1.5h 
Good for FTP testing.
But coming back to the one I failed:
Ad2) could be that I went out too hard - there was a long uphill just after the start, 350m high in 4.5 km, 7.8% on average. But I hoped I can recover and keep the tempo. The problem was that downhill sections did not offer too much of relax.
Ad3) I think I was close to 1 litre per houre, maybe somewhat less. Just thinking about eating 4g/kg of carbs (260g in my case) per hour. Probably I did not reach that level, but also wondering whether it is possible to maintain this level for 5 consecutive hours? Putting apart the issue with finding enough moments to consume this amount of food. Probably another thing to train on…
Ad4) I think I was. The racing week was pretty relax, with only one 1.5h outdoor ride two days before the event to wake up my legs.
What is my goal for this year? To improve from race to race and at least complete distances that I initially planned (ie. reach the time limits set by organisers and keep enough stamina to make it to the finish). You know - the last rider who made the race I failed was almost at age of my father. And he did it in 5h 10 minutes. He was the only one in his age cat. I wish I keep my motivation and form for next 15-20 years. Maybe I will reach the podium @60? 
Cheers and have a great weekend
I’ve found pacing appropriately is most important at the start. You’re fresh, strong, RPE feels low for the power you are putting down - so it can be easy to go too hard. I really focus on slowing myself down in the first 60-90 mins / first climb.
This is totally possible. You just need to find the nutrition that works well for you. I use a combination of solids and gels. Others just go with a carb mix in their bottles. You just need to experiment a bit.
Below is the profile for the Silver Rush. 50 miles 7200 feet. I finished in 5:40. Winner was just under 4:00. Finish cutoff I think is 8 hours. Sounds like the cutoff in your race was quite tight?
I think you have a point when talking about proper pacing. When I analyzed the race I found that in the opening section I beat my 20 min power output PB. This sounds like going too hard, doesn’t it?
I will certainly start experimenting with nutrition. I am more and more inclined to believe that this is one of key factors now. Maybe I am unconsciously limiting amount of food because I tend to have problems with keeping my body weight under control. It is not a good habit when racing though. How often / how much do you eat in one go?
These races are set in rounds. The distance depends on the number of rounds (1 or 2). Because of that you can’t start too slow if you want to qualify for the second round. The cutoff limit for the second round in this particular race was ridiculously demanding. Only 60% of riders managed to complete the full distance. The others failed. But 61 yo guy did it. This shows to me that this was something to reach. I only need to find a way HOW.
That is WAY to hard! I’m not sure if you can even recover from that. I’m certain that 20 min PB effort to start affected you hours later in the race. Everything feels easy in the beginning but it’s better to be conservative.
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Yep. Too hard.
I eat about every 30 mins. Half a cliff bar or one gel. That’s less than I “should” be eating, but I’m building up and training my tolerance (had some problems in the past with concentrated maltodextrin based gels).
That does seem like they are being too aggressive with the cutoffs.
That was some discipline to keep your power numbers on target.
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Thanks. It was all by feel because I train with power, but I race without power and heart rate data. It messes with my head and I bail early. Took some time to learn that less is more for me, at least on race day.
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Others have mentioned it…Always say to myself that the last thing you want in any endurance event is to be carrying around fatigue from early efforts.
That fatigue in your legs from that early effort will be with you for the entire event and will only hurt you.
Pay good attention to early power, keep it contained, keep a lid on it, save it for later!
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I tried to read through the responses so if I missed someone saying this I apologize. I have a few things to contribute.
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When Nate says he did Leadville on 2 hour indoor training rides we need to consider two things. One is that Nate has a high FTP and from all appearances is a gifted endurance athlete. What works for Nate doesn’t necessarily work for everyone else. Two is that Leadville is darn near a gravel race. It is not a full on MTB race with technical climbing or descending.
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Mountain biking requires more core, circular pedal stroke, foot strength, arm strength, etc. compared to indoor, road, or gravel. Especially in a longer race format. I very often cramp in my adductors and feet at the end of MTB races toward the beginning of the season. I have to pedal a rounder stroke to get through technical terrain and descending puts more strain on my feet that pedaling.
My point is that MTB racing and riding requires a ton of other muscles to be strong. From your neck, to back, to arms, to legs, to even your feet and toes. Riding inside cannot prepare those muscles for what it takes to ride single track climbs or descents for a 4-6 hour race.
I suggest getting out more often to ensure your other muscles have the strength needed to perform in these long races. You can do more core, balance board, dumbbell rows, etc. to improve as well but getting out and doing 3 hour MTB rides is a great way to do it.
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Plus the reason to ride (for most of us anyway) is the enjoyment of riding outside, and not just to be as fast as possible in a race.
Another reason to add longer outside rides to the schedule.
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What Bikeguy0 said. I followed the LV plans to prep for Four 5-8 hour races a year on a mtb. You need to put some time in on the saddle each week to prep all muscles for mtb racing. You can get fit enough with the LV plans to cover the distance as long as you pace correctly, hydrate, and eat correctly. My 4th and sometimes 5th ride a week is outside. 1 is usually a recover/skill building ride and the 5th is a 3 hour Z2/Z3 ride. It’s crucial for Marathon MTB race. INMO… I don’t have any research to back up my data but the fact that it works for me.
Mike
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MTB racing also rewards efficiency and not wasting power. This includes not scrubbing speed in corners or downhill unnecessarily. Another is proper suspension tuning and line choice. Then there is technical climbing. These gains can only occur on the trail or in skill sessions.
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Agreed on tech skills. In a recent race, I made up huge time on a rider that was more fit (and 15 years younger) because I carried way more speed up-down-around a course that was easy early and tech later. It lead to a pass and large opening that his fitness was unable to regain later in the race when things settled down on the trail.
There is some huge opportunity for riders with skills to succeed and should be a place all riders work on, if there are appropriate areas in their marquee event.
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Your approach is nearly identical to mine. I’m 40 years of age and only have a couple of years on the bike. 1x full round of TR following SSB 1&2, and SPB in LV format plus outdoor mtb rides. XCM specialty in MV leading up to my races. 100km, 68km and 43km with a fair amount of climbing.
Firstly, loads of great advice from others above.
My experience is that it’s pretty easy to give myself cramps. Especially after doing SPB. I mean it’s really just a block where you extend your ability to tolerate efforts above threshold for big chunks of time.
Every race I’ve completed has ended in me crossing the line with my legs starting to cramp. I know in my head it’s almost over and I can push a little beyond my capabilities.
Add to that the fact that I tend to push a lot harder during races. 75%-85% is the norm for longer efforts.
Coach Chad touches on the subject in the latest podcast 208. They discuss the way training overwrites the bodies self protect mechanisms. All well documented and tested theories to my knowledge.
Worth a listen. As are the podcasts based around the failed Single Track Six attempt.
I’m thinking that because you were able to carry on afterwards it was a pacing issue more than anything else. XCM is brutal and you can easily be pushing well above your pay grade on the steep climbs that don’t give you much other option.
Sure, you won’t be able to do the same thing on the trainer in two hours, but there’s no reason why you can’t get your fitness fine tuned on there.
I figure you now know how to recover from cramps and complete an endurance event. That’s a big jump in experience in my books.
I’d be chasing those cramps on my outdoor training rides to get a good feel for my boundaries before race day.
Best of luck with your next race.
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Really enjoyed this thread as I transition from enduro racing to XCM this year! Thanks to everyone for such thorough comments
Just wanted to circle back to a comment further up —
I think these units are off. My understanding of the research is that carb absorption generally tops out around 90-100 grams/hour (which equates to 360-400 calories/hr). These are the figures that SIS beta fuel, tailwind, maurten, etc, are designed around. I really doubt anyone, even a highly trained world tour gut, could absorb 260 grams of carbs in an hour… that’s over 1,000 calories an hour!
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Did I write that?? That’s way wrong 
You are right, I got my units mixed up. 260g of carbs is insanely high. 260 calories not so much.
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First, let me say that in general I agree with you. If you’re targeting a very long event it’s better to do some long rides outdoors. For three reasons:
1.) It’s a chance to workout equipment, nutrition and hydration issues that you can’t replicate indoors. Insoles, chamois, bibs, gloves, hydration packs start to feel a lot different after 4 hours of riding. Figure it out before the ride.
2.) Steep climbs hit muscles at different angles and intensities than a stationary trainer does. Especially on steep climbs such as you might see in a mtb race. Doing that to your muscles, imo, leads to cramping.
3.) I’ve come to believe training exclusively indoors dulls my ability to pace. Especially on a hilly course. I think this is worse for bigger riders.
Ok, so, that being said, I DON’T THINK INDOOR RIDING IS YOUR PROBLEM. You’re doing a couple hours a week riding outdoors oestensibly on the type of terrain that you’re seeing in your races.
There are many things that can cause cramping during a race. For every rider that rides primarily indoors and cramps up in a race there are probably 5 others that ride primarily outdoors & cramp up during a race. There are plenty of things that can cause cramping in a race that are unrelated to whether or not you are riding indoors or outdoors.
Based on your ride feed, it’s probably time better spent looking at root causes OTHER than the mix of indoor/outdoor rides.