2 bike fits and now I'm really confused

Equipment
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Its a while since I had a fit (probably on my TT bike back Pre lockdown) but it was just when the shorter crank thing was becoming a thing and I was delighted when he only said it could rather than it will with regards to shorter cranks and didn’t think it was worth it.

My roadbike fits are even older than that. My first was a jig in circa 2006 and that was next to useless and set my saddle too high and related or not I got my only physio requiring knee problem (tight ITB band). IIRC the tight IT in the hamstring area resulted in the patella being pulled out of alignment on the other side, so instead of running smoothly in the groove, it rubs against the bone and its like a jagged knife in the knee. I nursed that for years, it never completely went away but stretching stopped it being a sore problem. My next fit was in circa 2012. I think it made too upright but it found my leg length discrepancy which made the knee problem disappear altogether. My last road bike fit was in 2018 and it never changed much at all. To me it seems the important things were the shim and the saddle height.

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After a couple of decades of riding and racing, and $1,000s spent on bike fits, In my opinion, there just isn’t that much value for experienced riders.

My hunch is that your foot issues might have something to do with bike fit, but probably not much. My guess is that it’s more of a shoe fit thing.

If your saddle works for a six hour ride, do dot change it.

If your cranks are not causing you knee or hip issues, I wouldn’t spend the money, unless money isn’t that bid of a deal for you and you want to experiment.

Stems and seat posts are easy to change by yourself and aren’t that expensive. Experimenting with small adjustments there is fine.

These two fitters are pushing you in opposite directions, so, if I were you, I’d post a photo of you on your original bike fit to the fitting thread on this forum. If there some sort of consensus recommended change to saddle or hand position by participants there, I’d make a small incremental adjustment and see how it feels after a couple of weeks. Repeat if necessary. At some point, you’ll start thinking less about your fit and more about nailing your workouts, and then you can forget about it.

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23

Workouts have been going great…but winter hours on the trainer leave plenty of time to over analyze! The foot issue has been nagging me for a while and I need to figure it out for some big rides planned this summer.

I hope it’s a shoe issue but still got a bit of numbness on my trainer ride today so you can see my frustration :melting_face:

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I’ve gotten a motion capture fit a couple of times. Once to suss out some knee pain and recently when I had the same guy build up my new bike because I’m currently working out a L/R imbalance. Fit pretty much stayed the same from 2019 to a few weeks ago. He even checked both sides with the motion control (flipped the bike/trainer around) and my hip angles were within 1 degree on both sides so at least that confirms my imbalance as a neuromuscular thing. When I was in the midst of the knee problems I did a bunch of online research and book buying and got myself really close which the fitter pretty much confirmed with some minor tweaks and telling me why the changes I made worked which was cool(still cost a bunch though). If you do the research on fitting yourself you can do a lot with a full length mirror or a camera on a tripod and a plumbline. There’s also a thread about MyVeloFit that you should check out as it’s much cheaper.

As for your feet you might pay attention to your pedal stroke a bit more and working on the zones as are talked about in the workout text. I have similar numbness issues occasionally but as a part of trying to balance my imbalance I’ve been paying a lot of attention to my pedal stroke and making sure the ball of my foot is the part pushing the pedal and then making sure I’m scraping across the bottom and pulling my heel into the back of my shoe. By doing this I have alleviated much of the toe rubbing and numbness I’ve had as I’m not jamming them into the front of the shoe to make power. And this is after I’ve leaned into my high arches and bought currex bikepro insoles and specialized body geometry insoles, both of which have worked great at least from a comfort standpoint. The specialized might be more up your alley as unlike the currex they have the metatarsal button and are a bit more firm. You can find them at specialized dealers so you can try before you buy and don’t cost all that much. You might also try Solestar. Not too many folk have mentioned them here on the forum but those that have seem to be quite pleased. Most interesting is they have a “one shape fixes all” approach. I asked them why they don’t do different arches to which they replied in short “once you use it for a while you get used to it. Or send it back for a refund.” I think it’s a 30 day or more trial window. They look like a solid chunk of carbon fiber with a clear metatarsal button. The arch support looks a lot like how superfeet does theirs with a bit of support towards the heal that tapers quickly. Though what I have have been working I’m super curious about getting some Solestars. If you can wait to buy and get on their email list they were giving out 20% coupons a lot last summer when their athletes won, in particular Kasia winning the Tour and when LIdl Trek wins.

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25

This is the most important thing. I fit bikes all day and half that time is chit chatting with the rider to unravel the whole story.

A fit should end with lots of things, but rider confidence is high on the list.

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26

I’d address the leg imbalance and look into doing some PT/mobility/strength work. Give that time to settle, and then look into changing stem length and saddle height.

Oh, and try wider shoes.

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27

You don’t need to commit to one fitter’s approach 100%. Start with the lowest-cost, highest-impact changes (insoles, cleat shims, slight saddle tweak) and test incrementally. If after making a few changes, you see a big improvement, you’ve saved yourself from a full overhaul. But if issues persist, then consider the pricier parts.

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28

If you have feet problem see a podiatrist not a PT.
I wasted a lot of money and time on PTs who had no idea what they were doing.

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My personal view is there are just absolute cowboys in all areas unfortunately. Absolutely take your time in researching people and services and if you have to travel.

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30

Bingo. I drove from Alabama to Texas for a fit once.

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31

Since you’re saying the pain comes during long & hot rides, it could just be swelling of the foot. In that case you just need larger/wider shoes.

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To the OP What shoes you using ?

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Who did you see?

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@Lukas1 @Currieinahurry I picked up some Lake CX 239 in 49W recently. Hope that’ll help with the toe pain during hot rides but still getting some foot numbness on longer trainer rides in my cold(ish) basement. Was hoping to get that sorted with the bike fit(s) and custom insoles but too early to tell I think.

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35

Jerry Gerlich. I started fitting soon after that. Was 2013 I think.

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36

I found that bikefits are heavily overhyped due to certain bike fitters (from london) uploading a video every week to tell people their seat is to high and their bike is to long for 500 pounds.
if i were you i would start working on the issue with incremental steps on your indoor trainer. i think everyone should have enough body awareness to feel if a certain change makes things better or worse.

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37

I think he is pretty good. I have seen him, I think 3 times over 5 years. Mostly for shoe issues.

38

Great guy. Still talk to him often.

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39

I concur, but it could have been the person doing it.

They wanted my bike the day before, then when I arrived, there was a new stem set to what my stem dimensions were, and we started riding. He ended up saying that I needed a few adjustments, but that what I had done was nearly spot on for me, charged me $350, and suggested a followup after I rode with the adjustments for awhile. Was promised a 'detailed chart and setup instructions, showing ‘geometry and spacing’, and never got that.

Disappointed, annoyed that the did essentially nothing, and skipped cleats, seat size, some other details (bar width)…

Others raved about the guy, words like ‘through’ and ‘detail orientated’ were used, which I saw little of. (He did do a gate analysis that I’d already had done by an orthopedic surgeon and a podiatrist, so I sat waiting to see what they said, and it did match the experts, but other than that, I could have just kept on faking it till I made it.

However there are people that REALLY NEED a fitting, so I should have probably passed on that one, and gone for a more ‘expert’ and specialized type of fitting. :person_shrugging:

But I have my ‘new bike process’ down: shorter stem, toss their seat, swap pedals, double wrap bars, or at least swap cheap stock thin tape, adjust stack height, etc…

I was a programmer in a past life, and developed massive tendonitis in BOTH arms and wrists. The group I was in sprang for a ‘worksite evaluation’ and tons of physical therapy. The changes I needed were pretty massive and it took 4 months to get to some normalcy with the pain in the arms and surprising issues with my back and shoulders too. They deserve a hell of a lot of credit for being so doggedly running down every angle that was causing and contributing to the pain. (I would wake up a couple times a night in tears and nearly screaming with the pain).

I got a complete workstation redo, and they started doing that for others in the group too. Some were really appreciative that I actually had such a huge problem because they were hesitant to mention their issues and really liked the changes to their cubicle home. So getting a lot closer to the ‘functioning well-rounded human’ got me back to a much better place, but the ‘well-rounded’ part was a lost cause… :rofl: (But PT took forever, and really spiked the pain in the first couple of months)

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40

I feel your pain brother… I have wide feet with high arches and for the longest time it was an absolute pain (literally) finding the right fit. Where exactly on your foot is numbness starting out at? This could help identify where your issue lies.

I too find it interesting that they didn’t dig into the foot problem further, but it may be a blessing in disguise because you will likely be better served seeing a podiatrist. I would be very wary of the insurance based PT for the foot issue.

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