Yeah, It was a comment related to bikes slowly turning one by. I was stating that we are already seeing it on gravel and it will have taken a hold on road soon.
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@AJS914 wanted a very specific example. It isnāt just one race. Letās see what happens in the big races this year, specifically whether SRAMās 1x13 drivetrain will be used more often.
For specific races with e. g. flatter course profile or where chain retention plays a role, going 1x seems quite popular. Given Shimanoās sponsorship dominance, it might be that more teams and athletes would like to try it, but canāt. (See also power meters.) In contrast, SRAM offers both, so teams and athletes can choose.
There is significant overlap between the categories these days. BMCās new Roadmachine has clearance for 40 mm tires: Is it an aggressive endurance road bike or a gravel bike? The clear answer is āYes!ā
I think customers who get used to and come to prefer 1x might want that on all of their bikes. So trends in the gravel bike market will influence the road bike market.
People decide that 1X is the technology for them and then need to defend the choice on forums. Itās confirmation bias. They even see trends that nobody else sees. There is clearly no trend towards 1x in the pro peloton. There are a few examples on flatter stages and one team (3T) where it was a complete failure.
Just for the sake of debate what does 1X solve for high performance road riding? It eliminates the front derailleur (a problem???) in favor of a larger rear cassette and larger jumps between cogs. There is no weight advantage as itās a wash.
For this person, 1x sounds perfect.
Iāve never said that 1x isnāt workable or canāt be adapted to or that riders couldnāt live within the limitations. For many situations it can be perfectly fine.
But, I still doubt that it is optimal for pro cyclists or even categoriezed amateurs other than some flatter stages, crits, or TTs. If it was, it would be in widespread usage.
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Several come to mind, e. g.
- Better drivetrain efficiency on TT bikes due to ridiculously large chainrings (which are no longer compatible with FDs) or
- Any race where chain retention and reliability is important.
A couple of edge cases - definitely not taking over the pro peloton. A front derailleur actually holds a chain to the chainring pretty well.
I donāt think anyone claimed 1x is taking over the pro peloton. There is always nuance in statements, especially from OreoCookie. It helps to read carefully.
I can see how 1x on the road could be better for many people - especially ānormalā hobbyist cyclists. 50/34 with 11-34 for many people is overkill imho and a 40 chainring with 10/11-44/45/46 would be a better gear range for many.
I donāt understand why SRAM didnāt merge XPLR with the mountain range. Would be so much easier to just have one derailleur and multiple wheelsets with different cassettes. I ride XPLR on the GRoadbike and Iām still confused about it - jumps are too big in the small cogs and the range isnāt much different from 2x.
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Amen, Iām fairly sure most of us have been ahead of the pro peloton on many things for years too (tubeless, disc brakes, etc).
Also agree that most road bikes stock gearing isnāt suitable for the rider. For many, a nice 1x groupset is going to be the best option but not always.
To suggest it might be the new OSPW, put me in the disagree corner.
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Yeah, thatās a big one that would simplify matters a lot. The shifter is electronic, so youād just have to tell it what cassette it uses. Itād then also change ābehaviorā from Transmission mode (= prioritize shifting under load at the expense of shift speed) vs. faster shifts (= shift behavior of SRAM Red E1 1x13).
SRAM made that mistake when it first introduced AXS, the āstandardā rear derailleur was officially only rated for a 10ā33 cassette and for the 10ā36 cassette youād need to buy the WIDE rear derailleur. The āupsideā of the standard rear derailleur was that it supported the 10ā26 cassette, a cassette that was so unpopular that it was unceremoniously killed off. Standardizing around the WIDE RD would have saved me a lot of money back then.
Also, I think there is too much space between the 10ā36 and 10ā44/10ā46 cassettes. Rotor had a 10ā39 cassette with great ratios (= 10ā33 12-speed cassette + 39-tooth cog) or alternatively a 10ā40 cassette.
I also wonder what Shimano is doing when the new 1x12 GRX drivetrain is released. The 10ā45 cassette has IMHO terrible ratios, not just for MTBing, but especially for groad/gravel bikes.
Out of curiosity: 12-speed or 13-speed?
Ultimately, thatās what matters: what do customers want and do companies offer products customers want?
12 speed. I wanted Ekar originally but after trying it out at my LBS I decided against it. 13 speed with a 48t chainring would probably solve my āissuesā with 1x on the road but I think Iād consider going straight to 10-52 with an even bigger chainring for efficiency. Why I didnāt do that back when I built up the bike I canāt remember. Some mistakes you have to make yourself I guess.
I canāt help but think that 13spd MTB has to be coming pretty soon - hopefully itās just a software upgrade and a different cassette and they merge those two derailleurs into just one. Iād buy the 10-46 for my XC bike and the 10-52 for the Gravel but XD casettes arenāt compatible with XDR freehubs so Iām just sitting on my mechanical XX1 until the industry has figured out how to merge their offroad offerings into one streamlined product.
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I was briefly considering it as well, but I donāt really like the thumb shifters. Plus, at least on the demo bike I once rode, the brakes were not, hmmm, great ā or set up correctly.
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My 1x gravel bike is my road bike 99% of the time. I have a nice road race bike, but I hardly ever race road anymore and I like to train and ride on the bike Iām racing. And the gravel bike is way more comfy and plenty fast for group rides. 44 ring in the front and 10-50 (or 10-52) in rear. Plenty of range for anything. Easy to push 30+mph in the 44/10 and nice bail out climbing in the 44/52. Big gear jumps are fake news, all in the headā¦
I still like 2x on my road race bike, but I think itās a mental/comfort thing more than anything. A 1x setup w/ 48 ring and 10-46 would be a solid setup for racing. For general riding/training Iād probably run a 46 or 48 ring with 10-52 even on a pure road bike. I have no plans to upgrade my road group or build a new road bike in the foreseeable future. And Iām not sure if Iād go 1x or 2x if I was building a road bike right now. It would certainly be a debate.
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You should do a little more research.
Drivetrain efficiency is measurably worse on a 1x since youāre essentially cross chained at either end of the cassette.
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You should do a little more research, nobody is at top/bottom of a cassette for a TT, always in the middle handful of gears.
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Actually he is correct.
People are using larger chainrings than they otherwise would have for TT and even Tri (many pros) applications specifically because of the efficiency of going big/bigger vs being forced into a smaller rear gear and also keep a straighter chainline. Not talking about situation where someone is using the full range of the cassette.
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These threads always devolve into using edge cases of edge cases to prove a point.
Maybe a good time to merge to the 1x mega thread.
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You can keep saying that but
āBetter drivetrain efficiency on TT bikes due to ridiculously large chainringsā
This statement is true.
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TT bikes are an edge case.
The only issue with these threads is that the proponents take it on like itās a religious issue. The love 1x and so should everybody else. They present trends that donāt exist and make claims that 1x will take over even though there is zero evidence of that.
Iāve actually been planning on converting my Crux to 2x. The 1x is fine for gravel but the gearing sucks for mixed surface events. 1x13 would cost me a small fortune but 2x11 can be done for like $150.
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Not one person is saying everyone else should love it, not one.
Oreo stated a fact, he was told to do more research, when in fact he was not incorrect, then back pedaling occurred and it was called edge case. Edge case doesnāt make a statement false.
I am a proponent of 1X, also note I specifically said in my example above about where I used to live it was ideal. I moved, it is no longer ideal. I am considering building a 2X road bike. I have not suggested one time that everyone else should love it or have it.
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The only issue with these threads is that some people are way too emotionally invested.
OP asked if
anyone (has) done any testing on if big jumps are actually bad? The shifts are noticeable but is that a bad thing? I get in our heads it might not be ideal. But race day performance, dose it actually effect us?
And yes, some of us have done testing and testing has been done in the lab. 1x is less efficient in certain gear combos due to suboptimal chainlines on either end of the casette but can be more efficient in the middle of the casette (1x TT for example). Gear jumps annoy some people and some donāt care.
So ride whatever feels right to you. No one is trying to convince āthe other sideā. This is not politics. Letās not always revert to āthemā vs āusā. Things are much more nuanced in the real world. Letās not forget about the civil tone this forum usually has.
Weāre here to learn and share ideas. Not rile each other up and divide us. In the end weāre all cyclists. Just ride what you want - no one cares all that much. Happy day
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I assume when they launch the new force group, it will have 13sp xplr option. And eventually rival as well. Iām still a fan of the wider range mtb/mullet approach, but the 13sp is pretty sweet if you can live with the limited range. Iād personally like 13 that goes 10-52, but it seems they are set on keeping a line between gravel and mtb and I canāt see then adding another gear to transmission in the next year or so.
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