Zwift bans two riders from top races for falsifying data | CyclingTips

[Craig_G]

I see it as a case of the cover-up being worse than the crime. If they didn’t try to cover it up and said they paired the wrong device or forgot to dual record they might have been DQ’d from the individual event. Big whoop. I view it as a minor infraction. They still didn’t follow the rules, but in my view it is not a significant or malicious infraction.

Actively trying to manipulate logs after the fact to cover up for a plausible, simple mistake is what got the ban hammer. I think it is reasonable and sends the message to not try and falsify data. Its like if you got pulled over for speeding and start lying to the police officer… Just take the speeding ticket and move on instead of making the situation worse…

[TriSherpa]

@rbonick

what impact does height doping have?

Shorter people are more aerodynamic.

[stevemz]

@TriSherpa

That’s called cheating.

I disagree. Is it lying to cover your ass? Yeah for sure and they definitely shouldn’t have done that and should have just taken the DQ.

Cheating would have impacted the results, which in this scenario, did not appear to happen.

It just seems incredibly stupid and overblown by Zwift to do this, especially when the reason why people even need to do this in the first place is because they havent built a system to handle it.

[TriSherpa]

@stevemz

I disagree. Is it lying to cover your ass? Yeah for sure and they definitely shouldn’t have done that and should have just taken the DQ.

Ray Maker does a nice job of describing the lengths these two and their teams went to to hide the truth.

I don’t know how you could describe these actions as anything other than cheating.

[JoeX]

Nice of them to tell all the cheats to modify their Version ID before sending them in.

I think the best response is a slow clap and never to enter races these cheats are in.

[JoeX]

Theres always someone apologising for the cheats. The rest of us avoid it by the extremely arduous task of…not cheating.

[Aplcr0331]

Only 2!?

I remember riding on Zwift when I started out back in 2016 and getting a group ride and just being floored by what some of the people on there were doing as far as W/kg. It was astonishing. I did a few races, but once I needed to actually train I moved to TR.

My kids complain about cheaters and hackers in Fortnite and COD too…I assume many in Zwift are cheating as well…I’m not upset about it. The VAST majority of Zwifters don’t cheat. Cheating happens IRL too.

Part of doing business I suppose. Nice to see Zwift trying to keep Watopia level.

[stevemz]

I’m not apologizing for anyone. I think they deserve to get DQ’d and they didn’t have the back up files. They made a bad decision to try and modify and submit and certainly I don’t think that’s kosher either.

However, from what I’ve read, there was no intent to modify power to impact the race nor is there evidence of such manipulation that would have resulted in the actual on course race results changing.

I’m trying to draw a distinction here between a secondary data compliance infraction (which is what this appears to be) and an active desire to influence race results (which does not appear to have happened)

From DCR himself

Just to reiterate myself in case it’s not clear

• They deserve a DQ
• They shouldn’t have tried to modify and submit the power file as a secondary
• They didn’t follow the rules
• 6 months seems way too harsh for a secondary data compliance infraction
• This is also Zwift’s fault for being slower than molasses in the North Pole for implementing anything even remotely relevant to what their community wants

[JoeX]

@stevemz

They didn’t follow the rules

I dont want to get into a thing with anyone on this, so lets just agree on this point.

[TriSherpa]

@stevemz

This is also Zwift’s fault for being slower than molasses in the North Pole for implementing anything even remotely relevant to what their community wants

No and no. Zwift has all sorts of problems, but nothing that Zwift has or has not done justifies anyone breaking the rules. “They made me cheat.”

[stevemz]

I’m not arguing that anything is justified

I’m just saying if Zwift and organizing bodies are going to require dual-recording, then they should implement dual-recording in the darn platform.

[TriSherpa]

That we can agree on. Zwift has much opportunity for improvement.

[samfit]

Typica from al software company who have issues delivering features…

[rbonick]

imo if you’re not the top echelon (pun intended) of riders on zwift, “cheating” doesn’t really matter. if you’re cat B or lower, someone is already right on the cusp of the next cat & could put out the same numbers / performance.

not saying it’s ok, but you’re likely going to lose to someone if they’re cheating or if they’re just better than you.

[iamholland]

One thing I would probably add. A video stream. Kind of like how you and the other people do it, with an overlay of screen data.

In races, you have photographers, and in world tour races you have video cameras and live tv, so this shouldn’t be that big of an issue.

You have to make sure it’s you riding, not some semi-pro sandbagging it for you.

At least the 2 power meters would help people that put e-bikes on trainers (used to see that lots a couple of years ago) and racing.

[KelvinNewman]

Here’s a version of the events from one of the riders involved, obviously they’re going to see things differently but worth a read nonetheless.

[wysbf2]

Convenient to have had “a friend [who] offered to help me retain the full race file”. Sorry, doesn’t wash - you’re the athlete participating, and you’re responsible for the power files you submit. You know how important the files are for verification, so if a friend offers to “merge” the files for you (and from DCRainmaker’s analysis, it seems unlikely that anyone just ‘merged’ a recovered file) you should be asking questions.

[martinheadon]

@KelvinNewman

Here’s a version of the events from one of the riders involved, obviously they’re going to see things differently but worth a read nonetheless.

This for me is the key paragraph:

“They then sent me a message asking if I was sure that it was the correct file so I downloaded it from Zwiftpower into training peaks and looked at it properly. I realised it had the GPS map which doesn’t happen on the secondary power source (the Garmin) and initially thought it must have been a duplicate recording of the Zwift race file from my Wahoo Kickr. I told Zada not to use it, explaining I had seen the GPS map on it so it must be an incorrect file.”

If she can back up this version of events, e.g. prove that she sent the “oops my bad don’t use that file” email, it would present things in a different light. Without that, I’m mildly sceptical of the explanation.

[RobC]

Wouldn’t shock me if that was the case either. Whoever at zwift was in charge of answering her “oops don’t use that file” email probably can’t do it until they receive another round of funding.

[DaveWh]

As the incentives to cheat increase, cheaters will get increasingly ingenious on the ways that they cheat.

And aside from cheating, there’s also the honest differences in calibration between devices, whether that’s power meters or weighing scales (much more of the problem with the former).

There are too many variables to eliminate to make cycling esports a level competitive playing field, where no party has an unwarranted advantage over another, intentional or not.

Really, the only way to do so is to bring athletes to a central location(s) where they use certified equipment in a secure environment. But that kinda defeats the benefits of esports which is allow athletes to compete remotely.