That’s a pretty low percentage of FTP, wondering if your type 1 fibres and fat oxidation are under developed due to not doing enough low intensity volume over the years.
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The top of Z2 is not a fixed percentage of FTP. For instance the top of my Z2 is currently 86% of FTP. This is if you view top of Z2 as being your LT1.
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Guys, zone 2 is primarily aerobic and reliant on type I fibers. So is zone 3. Type II fibers start becoming more prominent as you move up in the spectrum of power zones and especially around and above threshold, but they create power more glycolitically than type Is and are going to fatigue faster than type Is (varies by athlete and training by some degree). Think hard ten-minute efforts and higher… not tempo.
But we’re comparing aerobic power to aerobic power here. Type I to Type I. It doesn’t make sense for someone to ride tempo using type IIA muscle fibers (period) and then to have it feel easier, even if their aerobic energy system is undertrained (which isn’t the case for at least one of these guys IMO).
The answer is almost assuredly related to cumulative, long-term fatigue or just a psychological preference for going faster, IME.
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Now we’re getting really pedantic! He’s been talking about 75% clearly using a Coggan zone model (or similar) which is a fixed percentage of FTP.
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I define Z3 as starting at LT1. Thus for me Z3 currently starts at 86% of FTP. But for your Z2 rides it should essentially feel easy until you’ve been riding for a long duration. Your long duration may be after an hour, for others it may be after 7 hours. But that Z2 duration before it feels hard can be extended by everyone just as you can extend your TTE for FTP.
Just as defining FTP as a fixed percentage of MAP is problematic. Defining the top of Z2 as a fixed percentage of FTP is problematic. Some will fall below, some will be on the money, some will fall above. Plus percentages for an individual can move through training…
Is your LT1 lab tested/Lactate Meter tested?
You must have a super, duper narrow Z3 window yeah?
dang. how long have you been training for overall, and how often are you doing rides like this?
interesting case…altho if you’ve only been training like 12-18 months I’d be worried there is a mega cratering about to happen, but hoping that’s not the case!
brendan
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Lab tested
How long can you ride at 86% for?
Not doubting. Just fascinating number difference.
How do you identify your ftp in the field any day?
I’ve done 10 hours recently , if I’m riding longer it’s usually at least 24 hours and therefore I’m more conservative. I ride ultra distance events.
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Wow, that’s impressive! That is (according to my definition) all day pace - 86% is phenomenal.
You must be a tiring groups dream during the Ultras!
“Hey @GoLongThenGoHome can you please get on the front and get us there before the kitchen closes”
I agree with this. OP is used to riding harder and psychologically, OP is more focused when doing so. This makes it seem easier. It obv is not physically easier. I used to ride like this years ago before I got a coach. My coach basically taught me how to ride easy
I think this might hit the nail on the head. I love it when i can try hard and am highly likely more engaged. Not trying doesn’t seem like its doing much so i guess my passion doesn’t lie there.
Currently do have a coach and he is getting me to do a lot more easy stuff, its hard though as i come from a background in training of try hard to make progress but we shall see.
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In the field it’s very simple, if you are able to have a conversation all the time, in full sentences, without needing to pause for a breath at any point, and you can do this for many hours, you are clearly not in sweet spot. If you are working at sweet spot you’ll be breathing harder, and you’ll know it.
If you just blindly go, well top of my Zone Z2 is 75% , you might find yourself working too hard or even too easy. Bit like those who find a ftp set to 75% of a ramp test is too hard or too easy, when they go do their subsequent workouts.
Guidelines are just that, a starting point, then you tune them to your own physiology.
Which means that when it comes to the long endurance ride it’ll likely be sub optimal for a lot of people. You’ve got to go back to what’s the purpose of riding in Z2. If it’s not fulfilling that purpose , or it doesn’t feel like the zone description, do you stick with it?
If a Z2 ride feels hard no matter the duration then something isn’t right.
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I may be wrong but i think there is definitely something around blood sugar. We know RPE is reduced when you fuel with more hence higher blood sugar. Higher intensity also raises blood sugar irrespective of fueling. So this could create the same feeling.
With that in mind fuelling more should produce the same results.
Could be comfort / bike fit? There’s a hell of a lot less weight on ass and hands while I’m putting out 250w+
Can you pass the Neil Stanbridge bike fit test re peddling with no hands and not falling forwards?
Yes is not comfort-related. Fatigue-related is a better description.
People with very well developed aerobic energy systems can push their aerobic threshold much closer to anaerobic threshold (LT1 to LT2). Since Phil is an ultra distance cyclist, he probably spends much of his time riding below LT1. Given enough volume and time, it’s possible to move LT1 “right” toward LT2 which in TR parlance would push his aerobic threshold closer to FTP.
I don’t know anyone whose LT1 is 86% of FTP, but it’s possible I guess. He says it’s lab tested, so good for him! That’s what’s important for his events - sustainable aerobic power and stamina.
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