I think this thread is about a different kind of base training, but each to their own! 
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This thread is interesting to me, but with “life” I can’t fathom the number of hours it’d take to see adaptations from long/slow base entirely.
I’ve considered doing high volume traditional base 1 because I think that would be manageable, but between a work transition, young kids, etc., I think I’m back on the SSB train this year either way. I saw gains this season - about an 8% bump in FTP over my previous PR, hopefully I can continue seeing improvements. My thought for this year is that I’ll do SSBLV, add a 60-ish minute endurance ride mid-week, and then add a group session on the weekends. That probably puts me in the ~8 hour realm, mostly SST, which I think will be good under the circumstances.
Someday, I’ll hit that point where I need to join the long/slow train you guys are talking about here. The question is whether or not life will let that happen!
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During the 2019-season I was doing 3-4hrs of MTB-riding every Sunday. Which was great and all but my kids were at home staring at their screens so I needed to optimize my trainingtime. And furthermore I didn’t see any benefit in riding slow outdoors when the MTB-season started. I think the real benefit of those rides will be technique-traning so I’ll be focusing on just riding race-pace on those sessions not doing any thing else.
However I did notice, while doing outside workouts with TR that RPE is way lower and it’s much easier to go harder outside.
In the context of “train low” this may be related to not lowering muscle glycogen sufficiently. Key adaptions of endurance training: 1) larger glycogen stores, 2) more contribution of fat ox at any intensity level (which means glycogen use is/may be reduced)
This means, for elites it takes more work to lower glycogen to a concentration which (may) elicit the favoured adapations. Simply because they have more and use less of it when working out.
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O.k., this is scary and will make me definitely rethink any low or fasted or whatever restricted sessions in the future. Will have to get hold of the fulltext though. The context is not entirely clear to me from just reading the abstract
Not interested in osteoporosis later just for some uncertain gains in fatmax or whatever.
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Post exercise CHO restriction is not something I’ve heard of before, only pre exercise. It certainly sounds a bit extreme!
Just thought I’d throw this into the ring:
Oh, those Euros! 
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post-ex CHO restriction has been in the toolbox for a long time.
It is something that is practised quite frequently among pros, this is not something exotic. However, w/r to bone resorption I don’t see much difference to commencing a 4-5h ride with low-glycogen/fasted and then restricting carbs during the ride.
From that review it seems the evidence of it’s benefits are equivocal…
I must say it’s nice to discover something AFTER it’s found to potentially be a bad idea!
Got hold of the fulltext, excellent Discussion-section. The conclusion:
Whilst the clinical implications of such acute and
transient alterations in bone resorption remain to be
determined, it would seem sensible for athletes to avoid
prolonged periods of low CHO availability in order in
to reduce the potentially detrimental effects on bone mass
(Ihle&Loucks, 2004) and/or bone injury risk.The findings
of the current studymight also lend some further support
to the requirement for post-exercise feeding (particularly
of CHO) in order to attenuate the bone resorption
response to intense exercise or high training volumes
But they also stress that it is too early to draw any final conclusions on bone health. Especially:
That said, this must be carefully considered over time, given that
these alterations in bone metabolism are also likely to be
an important part of the bone adaptive response, which
remains an area requiring significant future research.
However, “precautionary principle” for me: no low-carb/fasted training in any of its variants for me anymore. Will target 2-a-days in close succession with carb feeding instead.
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“Winter is coming, time to start pondering how to structure next season’s Zwift races”
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I’ll have to shift away from riding outside some time in late Oct or early Nov.
My focus is not grounded in any scientific literature, and targets weight management more than anything else.
I’ll get in at least 1500kj of work each day, with a 2hr time limit during the week. So, one weekday session of some 80-90%, but I’m getting less and less enthused about those on the trainer, because I’m starting to hate the sheer amount of sweat. The rest just getting the kj in at 60-70%.
Longer rides on the weekend. Twice a month, Saturday will have some short zone 5 hills, but not more than 10-15min of time in zone – just keeping it open. Otherwise, just a lot of high zone 2/low zone 3, with some extended chunks of 90% thrown in on the non-zone 5 Saturdays (I do like to get out with the first hour at 90%, then just ride for 2-3 hours).
The goal is to keep some fitness and not gain more than 2kg over the winter.
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I need to rethink when to do the full base cycle. This past year I did SSB1-2 HV, Sustained Build HV, then SSB2 from Dec-June, got from 275-310w, but July-August I had some family vacation (had my bike, but only rode every other day and kind of unstructured) and then a mix of more endurance and a lower volume of short power stuff to prepare for CX season (which is the only thing I’m racing, except for a road race and 2 crits).
I just backed my ftp to 285 after having kind of a mixed bag with the short power stuff and a return to sweet spot had me a little over extended on Geiger. Setting it back to 285 had Geiger feeling just right for me. Was hoping I was riding enough this summer to ride the wave I had set over the Dec-Jun period, so a little bummed I’m down those 25w, but it’s still 4w/kg and 10w higher than my baseline last year, so trying to see the silver lining! Kind of surprised I dropped off that much even with regular activity, but then again I’ve never gotten beyond 275 in prior years so I suppose maintaining such a high ceiling is tough.
So inevitably I’m thinking about trying to maintain the high, and if that may possibly mean not starting the full SSB progression until later in the spring or if I can follow the same progression but making my July and August include a lot more sweet spot and above to maintain.
Curious to hear your winter plans… I’m doing a fair bit of zwift racing along with plenty of Z2 and some tempo and I’ve never been stronger and haven’t burnt out or plateaued. Was considering just keeping at it through the winter with the odd rest week here and there.
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@sryke do you have a TL;DW?
Apologies, I’ve deleted the post.
@sryke Apologies if you mentioned this but I gathered from your original post that you don’t intend to spend 20hrs/week this year.
So then these rides will total how many hours? 15hrs? 18hrs?
Yes, probably. Always depends on “life”.
However, as pointed out here, I’m reconsidering these “low” sessions. Furthermore, mid term work prospects may force me to consider more 2-a-days and/or “optimised” LIT training.
Sorry for the long delay in getting back!!
My plans are fairly simple - find a couple of decent race series in the time slots that fit when I can race and do them. This will depend on the overall aims for the team over the winter. My schedule will probably look a little like this…
Monday - 90 mins sweetspot session
Tuesday - strength/conditioning or rest
Wednesday - race 1hr (eg DIRT series/Morning Grind Fondo)
Thursday - race 1hr (usually XRS - ZTR racex)
Saturday - race 90 mins (3R Hilly Race or EVR Asia race)
Sunday - Endurance ride (usually group ride/Zwift Fondo etc)
Races are usually like HIIT sessions with a big VI - ie big 1 and 5 minute efforts followed but sitting in the bunch. It’snot everyone’s cup of tea, but for me it’s a lot of fun. And that’s what ridings for, eh?
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