ERG mode was a complete game changer for me. No need to dial in and concentrate on holding power, you just pedal. I also don’t even use my PM indoors anymore, it introduces way too much variance when you use it for power (it’s a feedback system with inherent lag so the resistance will constantly be up and down). If I let the trainer take care of everything, it’s much more smoother.
Some of these workouts get really tough and spiking too much off target too often can pile up just enough to fail the workout. That’s what I’m keen on preventing as much as possible, anyway.
How then do you translate everything outside when you’re riding, or do you know how your PM and trainer relate in their power readings? In other words, if you’re used to riding at a 250W FTP in ERG mode, do you know that correlates to 235W on your PM (or similar)?
If I go the smart trainer route, I plan to use power match for consistency indoors and out.
It’s definitely a concern and you have to weigh the pros and cons–some people will say that they prefer the consistency between indoors/outdoors so they’ll use the PM for readings indoors too. For me, the difference in drive train efficiency (PM being at the crank and the trainer reading being at the hub) is not that much (~5%), and PMs accuracy +/- 1 to 2%… then you try to factor in the variance you get from the constant under/over shooting of resistance caused by it… I figure at the end of the day my zones are still the same–remember that the absolute FTP number only affects the range of your zones, so a few watts here or there isn’t enough to knock you out of zones completely.
It’s up to you really. Another factor for me is that I get some bad interference in my pain cave so the BT connection to my PM can cut out and get stuck at a certain resistance… not an issue when the trainer does the job coincidentally.
In my experience you should probably be using power match if you have access to a power meter and a smart trainer. The inconsistencies you see are more a function of power recording and reporting than actual fluctuation in power put into the machine.
The trainers always give a nice flat line (even with smoothing turned way down) because of the nature of the fly wheel whereas the power meters will give a more spiky line due to the nature of the crank/pedal/spider and their recording frequency.
The application isn’t suddenly adjusting the resistance of the trainer based on these small spikes but only on the larger averages (seconds long). Sure - you will get slightly higher variability in the actual power expended but it isn’t nearly as large as you see on the graphs.
You can take a look at my graph for the ride I did earlier this evening (Log In to TrainerRoad) and see that for the relatively short breakdowns of the intervals the power is consistently measuring within the same zone with the largest gap being 5 watts. For me this discrepancy isn’t nearly large enough to justify moving away from power match functionality - although I guess for some people not hitting that target exactly bugs them enough that they’d rather deal with the hassle of separate power readings and maintaining a known offset for indoor and outdoor rides
The smart trainer has been wonderful. I really enjoy that I can be consistent in my workouts and my power output. Additionally, with the dynamic smart trainer I do feel that I gain some eccentric muscle strength with simulated road feel.
I don’t miss the harmonic chase of power/cadence. Everything is a lot more real time, and I feel it makes the workouts a lot more doable and mentally satisfying.
I’ve used a Kinetic Road Machine for the last ten years, I just switched to a Kickr Snap. ERG mode is quite different and can be frustrating at first but in the long run I think will make me stronger. However, be prepared for technological challenges of connecting to apps, spindowns, and other issues. My Snap is two months old and already has a bad harmonic hum and will likely be going back for warranty. My Kinetic was pretty much bomb proof.
My experience was that my outside FTP is higher, be that through cooling, going deeper in races, motivation, so the carry over isn’t really there. I assume it is for most people, given that this is the thing that is quoted most often for a power meter v smart trainer upgrade.
I did my first ride on my Kickr Core last night so let me opine since I am now an expert
I came from a Road Machine (which is about as good a dumb trainer as their is) and the biggest difference I notices was that the Kickr let me pick my cadence. I could ride 90 rpm or 105 rpm and be at the same power. Way more comfortable. The second thing I noticed was the “ride feel”/ momentum was 100x more realistic, and comfortable, especially on hard efforts. The Kickr has 2x the fly wheel weight plus you get to pick the speed by shifting gears since power is no not dependent on speed. The end result is tons more momentum. The two trainers are not even close on that point. I could start coasting at 230w and 10 seconds later when I picked back up pedaling if felt like it does on the road i.e. you’re not starting from close to zero after a short coast. Those two things alone are worth the $899 to me since my Road Machine frequently left me feeling like I was pedaling through mud and I often had to chose between the power target and a cadence I could sustain.
Actually, while forcing me to hold a power target was nice, that was only 3rd on my list of cool things after one ride. (I’m pretty good at hitting power targets). The ride feel was the biggest “wow” factor on the first ride.
I know not all trainers let you do this, but I did a few TrainerRoad workouts where my Garmin recorded my PowerTap G3 and I had TrainerRoad connected to my STAC Halcyon. There’s a figure you can adjust in the STAC control panel app and I kept tweaking it until I finished a ride and the two of them read just a watt off. It helps that they both actually measure power at the same place, of course.
Now that they read the same, I have a cheap old wheel dedicated to the trainer because adding / removing the weights that turn that wheel into your fly wheel are kind of a pain.
Thanks for all the replies re: power match and PM vs. Kickr outdoors. I recall listening to the Kona podcast last year where the rider (KQ age-grouper from Ireland) said that because he knew he could hit his numbers indoors, he was safe outdoors. That makes total sense to me and especially for 70.3 and 140.6 triathletes where you’re usually trying to dial in a specific IF over the course of the ride. If I know I need to hit 195W to make my goal split as calculated by BBS, and I can hit that inside on the trainer, then doing so outside is going to be “easier” for a lot of the reasons mentioned.
That said, for shorter races, where you don’t necessarily set a specific IF, or a hilly course, or tactical races, etc., more precise measurement is desirable outside if for nothing else but to make sure you’re going hard enough… but that’s probably where we get into racing by feel, knowing that if it feels as hard outside as it usually does inside, you’re probably going faster and generating more power outside.
I don’t use power in the vast majority of mass start races. I have my 10 second average on my display but don’t use it unless I’m off the front (alone or in a small group) or on a final, decisive, climb where I know I need to meter my effort.
However - you are correct on TTs, particularly longer ones. Even for shorter ones you’ll benefit from knowing the numbers and comparing to how you are feeling
Hi @MichelinMan
You’re right in saying that you change up the gear (or increase your cadence) when power goes up. You don’t fiddle with your turbo trainer resistance settings.
Try to set your cadence at the start of each step so you produce roughly the prescribed power.
Get strengthy
Same setup but I don’t want to disconnect the inride because of the (simulated) speed it gives me. How can I force TR to use my favero assioma pedals as power source in this scenario?
Anyways, ordered a KICKR core that should show within a week. New set of issues then, I think
Trainerroad should grab your bluetooth signal from your pedals for power and cadence. Speed can be done with a regular old speed sensor. Just put a magnet on your spoke, make sure you have the right diameter setting, and you’re good to go!
I have a semi smart trainer that’s a few years old. I can use ERG mode only through the very basic app that came with the trainer that I wish I could use with Trainerroad.
Anyway - I did a quick test of ERG mode a while back and set the power to 200 or so and just spun the pedals. I ended up riding for a lot longer than I’d originally planned just because it made things so easy.
I’m curious to know how ERG mode manages short sprint efforts, but for steady state efforts it seems to make things much easier than staring at your power number constantly.
I’ve just moved over to using a Kickr Core. I was previously using a Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll trainer, which I really liked for the sideways movement, but I have moved flat and it was just a bit too big in its footprint and a bit too noisy. So far I’m really impressed with the Kickr Core. It’s really quiet - much quieter than I was expecting - and the resistance feels good. Not having to think about the wattage that I am meant to be putting out does make workouts a little bit easier and more rewarding. I don’t like the very static position, so i am going to look at options for a rocker plate at some point (if I can make one that is small enough then it should be a big improvement).
That is unlikely to help as the power issues were only present during sprint efforts.
The more important question (which may have been answered, but I didn’t see it), is if he as done the Factory (aka Advanced) spindown calibration, followed by the normal spindown calibration?
Those can be helpful in nailing down power accuracy.
Hi
Yes! Generally stick on level 2/3 until I end up breathing out of some other orifice other than my nostrils and nose.
Really "enjoying trainerroad, on my not so smart trainer. Will use my cash to get a gucci bike and take it on adventures!
