What is L39ION doing?

Racing
45

This convo has really morphed. First off, I agree with OP lane that dominating us crit series is getting kind of boring. I also did not even care to watch the the into the lions den race because it is extremely boring to watch them control the race for an hour and then sprint for the win. On the other hand, it is not their fault they dominate the crit scene.

Now, to the other convo - how to increase participation/interest in cycling in the US:

There is a lot to be unpacked. First of all, how do kids choose to play a sport/get into a sport. I would argue that 90% of the time it comes from a combo of these 3 things:

  1. Access. Every park where I live has a bball court. All you need is a ball.
  2. Parents. If your parents play (or played) a sport, it is more likely that the kid will want to join them or that the parent will want to teach it. Every single one of my friends with a parent that cycles also cycles.
  3. Friends. If all your friends play a sport, you’ll probably want to play that sport.

All these things are huge hurdles for cycling, and especially road cycling. Suppose I am watching a bball game on TV. It is super easy for me to go to the gym or the park and shoot hoops/play into a game. Until they reach a certain age, kids cannot just hop on a bike and go on a road ride without some sort of supervision. They for sure cannot go do a crit race on a whim. That is if they even have a bike.

America is a super out of shape country. This compounds with the above. If I am out of shape, I can still shoot hoops or play in a leisure bball game and have fun. It is not very fun to go on a legitimate road (or mtb) ride if you extremely out of shape. This means less parents cycle.

For road riding, it is harder to get kids together to do that type of thing. I see groups of kids mountain biking all the time. I think it is easier to have after school type programs at a MTB park than it is for road riding. I have literally never seen a group of kids on road bikes together. If that is the case, some kid who might be interested in road riding might not do it because their friends play other sports.

If L39 wants to increase participation, they need to also address these things. Right now they are getting people interested which is a good step, but if the other items do not get addressed, I would argue it will all be for naught.

Next, why do people watch a sport:

  1. Because they play that sport. Not always - but makes them more likely since they understand the difficulty and the tactics
  2. To watch talented people do cool things (same reason people are interested in movies about geniuses)

The first one could be easily fixed if participation is increased. The second one is a huge hurdle. I can see Tom brady make incredible throws. I can see Steph curry hit crazy threes, I can see Lebron do all the insane things he does. Home-runs in baseball, etc. Even bags (I think it is called cornhole elsewhere) gets put on espn2 because people can appreciate how tricky some of the shots are. I mean what are the highlights of a road bike race? Someone starts to pedal harder. Or Geraint Thomas crashes because of a speed bump. Note: I love watching bike racing because I appreciate the tactics and how hard it is.

2 Likes
46

#2 is really what it boils down to…but it starts with exposure.

The best example I can give you is the increase in popularity of F1 in the US over the last few years and it is all down to one thing - Drive To Survive on Netflix. It has exposed tens of thousands of viewers to a sport they never followed before, likely had no interest in and, in some cases, were completely unaware of.

If we want bike racing to become more popular, it needs a Drive To Survive moment…and we aren’t anywhere close to that currently. We had a quasi-moment like that in the early 00’s with -7, but we have obviously regressed from there.

Personally, having been riding and racing for 30+ years, I can tell you that this has been a constant conversation the whole time. At some point you just accept that it is what it is…I’m way past the point of caring whether bike racing ever becomes more popular than it is now.

1 Like
47

I would submit a 4th element… Money

  • On some level being able to make alot of money appeals to kids and also parents who support thier atheletic careers.

  • Seems hard to makemoney cycling unless you go to Europe. I think US Soccer used to have a similar issue, but now you can at least make a living in the US playing pro soccer and not have to work a second job. IMHO tennis ( which has really fallen in popularity in the US) sort of has the same issue. There are all these small-time events that barely cover food , gas, and a hotel room.

2 Likes
48

You mean the Movistar series wouldn’t pull people in and show them how cool bike racing is?

49

This. I have several friends that are now avid F1 enthusiasts and watch practice, qualifying, and races… but had no interest in the sport whatsoever before they’d watched Drive to Survive.

I know people keep complaining that there was no livestream coverage of In2theLionsDen, but at this point people like us are the only people that would care to find and watch a stream of the race. Their real focus was the in-person experience and excitement, to attract folks that wouldn’t necessarily care about watching a race. In walking around while I was there and hearing conversations folks were having, it seemed like the mix of casual cyclists/general public that didn’t know anything about racing + racers/cycling fans was a pretty even split. What definitely stood out to me was how many families with small children there were. That’s where the change comes from, IMO. If you get the excitement and interest going at a young age, we might actually be able to get a new generation interested in the sport.

3 Likes
50

Hell, I have a hard time watching that series. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

1 Like
51

Ha! I think they originally wanted something like Drive to Survive but Movistar is just such an unorganized sh!t storm that it definitely didn’t come out like that.

1 Like
52

Squid Game aside, it is pretty hard for a series with subtitles to become a breakthrough…but more importantly, the Movistar series only focused on that team. DtS brought in all the teams, all the stars and built compelling post-season narratives.

2 Likes
53

Agreed, I think just general disinterest for the team + subtitles makes the show difficult to watch for me. Especially since I watch most TV shows while I’m on the trainer.

54

That’s true. When you’re looking at 12 teams or whatever you have a lot more material to choose the exciting stuff from.

To try to bring it back to Legion and US cycling. I think it would be pretty cool to do a short docuseries/movie about USA crits. I know Butcherbox has those two movies and they’re pretty awesome. But it would be cool to have one about the whole field so that people can actually know all the teams and not just legion or not just butcherbox.

3 Likes
55

I totally agree, but I do think there are a couple of differences. The first is that F1 racing is at extremely high speeds. People can relate to that, understand the risk and imagine how difficult it is to drive a car going that fast. The second is that people in the US are just generally more interested in cars and (almost) everyone drives a car. Most people have never descended down a mountain on their bike so they do not understand the risks/adrenaline or gone through a corner at 30mph elbow to elbow with cyclists. As such, I think it is immensely harder to have a “drive to survive” moment in cycling.

4 Likes
56

For the record, I’m not suggestion that it’s L39ION’s responsibility to come up with ways to increase exposure and interest in cycling. It’s not their job, however, they seem to have drawn a lot of attention within the cycling community–and probably nothing outside of it.

I’m just merely curious as to what their plan is, they have signed some big female names recently and I assume it’s to build a bigger and badder crit squad for the females, but they have also signed some male talent as well. Or is there something more coming…

57

Disagreed, at least in the black cycling community. There have been a huge influx of new black cyclists getting interested in riding in 2020 and 2021 and most of them attribute their interest to what they see L39ion doing. At least that’s what the influx of new members and posts to the FB group “The Black Cyclist” I’m a member of leads me to believe.

ETA: The FB group I’m referencing currently has 21.5K members, and since I’m not an admin, I can’t see the granularity of how many have been gained over time, but I recall back in 2019 it was somewhere in the 12-15K range.

6 Likes
58

Ok…

What I mean by that is if you randomly selected 50 folks on the street how many of them would have any clue who L39ION is? Perhaps if you lived within the LA-area, but outside of it my guess is very few, if any from a random sampling. If they are known in Black communities by-and-large that is awesome.

2 Likes
59

How many would know anything about cycling?

2 Likes
61

Virtually everyone has ridden a bicycle in their youth in the very least. Connecting the dots is not hard. I would say more people have ridden a bicycle in American than have driven a car. Even more have had an impromptu street race on a bicycle than in a car. Crit racing isn’t much different than “I’ll race you to the next block!” when you are 5. People CAN connect with bicycle racing, but not when the image is skinny twerps riding 5 wide on the road in traffic. Because that is what people see.

Now if we cycling had a Nicky Hayden/Faster moment, things might be a little different.

2 Likes
62

Of course…and I am not suggesting that they do a Netflix series. My point was to draw the parallels between what drove F1 as a result of DtS and what cycling needs…awareness and engagement with a compelling story.

The vehicle(s) though which you explout those factors can be vastly different.

1 Like
63

Quoting myself because I’m not sure what you’re asking…

Just a guess…close to zero.

1 Like
64

Drugged up homeless dude started talking to me about Lance Armstrong the other day while I was stopped at a red light. Cycling has had a few moments… 1984 Olympics, Breaking Away (1979), Greg Lemond and NBC coverage in the 80’s and the unforgettable “American Flyers” movie (1985), Lance. Never sustained. It’s been a while since a non-cyclist talked to me about cycling.

Cycling needs a powerful narrative to get public attention. Redemption stories are great for sport. Or hyped up conflict, like wrestling. Or celebrities… bring back “Battle of the Network Stars,” which featured cycling (on Huffy bikes if I recall correctly).

1 Like
65

If Legion or anyone wants to grow cycling and racing in America I think the key is kids and access to bikes and a structure to help them progress. Whether that progression means racing or just riding or commuting if the opportunity is available I think many would start. Parents would be overjoyed with the prospect of another healthy avenue/outlet for kids to socialize organically. Just taking to many NICA coaches and parents, there are so many kids who do not fit into the football, baseball, dance, soccer club BS. Cycling (off and road) is just a different animal. The kids all love to be a part of a team even though they know they aren’t taking it pro or for a scholarship.

Perhaps this is what they are thinking. IDK. I thought I heard Justin talk about needing every large city to have a club where kids could go. If so, I think that is spot on…

1 Like