I think he was probably a pretty bad guy who made the choice to be the best at whatever cost and then did everything he could to keep it under wraps until his life fell apart from all the lies. However, I do think the “social cost” of Lance Armstrong is pretty low - pretty sure most organizations that got involved with him came out of it better off, at least financially. I don’t think he should have lost his wins (but an asterisk is probably warranted). It seems to me that he’s genuinely made some changes. I’m sure he’s still not everyone’s cup of tea, but he has inspired some real, die hard loyalty in some close friends, so there has to be some good in him too. He’s a complicated guy with a complicated legacy.
I’m not sure I think it’s loyalty. I think it’s fear.
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I know he wasn’t the nicest person during his racing days but he recently flew out to be with Jan ullrich when he was at his lowest point, and Mike Tyson also has positive things to say about Lance (when Tyson was going through his darkest times). I’m sure there are many more positive things Lance has done that we don’t hear about.
The racing was also great when he was around.
He cheated, ergo DQ.
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Well there are a pile that have since admitted to cheating and they still have wins? Who else has lost their wins long afterward?
I am not saying I agree or disagree with the decision I just don’t like how there are different rules for different riders. We could go through a long list that cheated that still have their so called wins.
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I’ve raced Lance a couple times and ridden with him a couple times. We’re almost exactly the same age so if we’re at the same event these days we’re racing.
The reality of Lance Armstrong was different than my expectation. He is just…I don’t know? Just kind of a normal cyclist dude. Maybe even likeable. Not what I expected. He is more likeable than Chris Horner but not as likeable as George Hincapie. Ha!
Do I respect him? I always say he is the Christ of Dopers. He got crucified…everybody else had their sins forgiven. I once asked a world champ, point blank, ‘Were you clean?’ and in a surprising moment of frank communication he told me, ‘I don’t think anybody makes it to this level without taking a little something.’ Is that also true in cycling? I think it once was but hopefully it’s not today.
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That’s a problem with the admin/governing bodies. Just because they haven’t scoured the result boards clean, doesn’t mean the offending participants deserve their placements. The politics of the game were/are perhaps more dirty than the riders.
According to durianrider, that bloke is correct.
We can ascribe motives to people we’ll never know until the cows come home. Maybe Hincapie et al. are all just afraid of Lance, but it doesn’t seem like the most plausible explanation for their sticking with Lance through this when it would have been easy/popular to jump ship. No one would have listened to Lance anyway because he had no credibility. Just my two cents.
He still has no credibility but a hell of a lot of people listen to him. He has destroyed MANY lives. No one wants to join that club. It’s like people who stick with a rogue politician. They’d rather be on his good side than his bad. These are people who back in the day would do ANYTHING to win. Do they want him taking about that? I’d don’t think so. (Just my 2 cents too. Not trying to be argumentative with any one person)
The assumed premise being that all cheaters should always be DQ’d even if it comes out a decade later amidst a pack of other cheaters. I’m fine with people holding that assertion, but I don’t share it. Regardless of whether doping affects people equally etc etc, he was the best of his era. I don’t think it does cycling any favors to dispute that. We’re free to argue how that dubious honor holds up over time as the sport cleans up, but it’s still a fact that he was the fastest.
I’m honestly not trying to defend Lance morally, I don’t think that’s possible. I’m just saying not all immoral results are meaningless/should be forgotten or expunged.
Mom: If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?!
Doesn’t matter how fast he was, only that he cheated.
If that’s the case, return Ben Johnson his gold medal.
Give Floyd back his yellow tunic. Free Madoff. Et al.
It’s like no one of that time wants to take responsibility for their own actions, they all blame the era, the system, the culture, etc. If nothing else, I have zero respect due to their lack of ownership (aka can’t do the time, don’t do the crime!).
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We’re all entitled to our opinions here. I’ve already said I don’t think Lance did the right thing morally. I never said I respected what he did, only that the result was clear. Have a nice day.
No.
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How about DQing some of Eddy Merckx’ 525 wins? He was popped for doping more than once. I’ll bet that of the cycling heroes are in the same boat. Bernard Hinault? Most likely. A lot of people in his era doped.
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Lance is one hell of a podcaster. We’ve all lied or cheated somehow so I don’t think he’s any less of person than I am.
I’d have a beer or six with him if given the chance.
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You’re very generous with your both your condemnation and praise.
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I can confidently say I’m not as big of a POS as he is, so don’t lump me into your basket.
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…but you are a Human Being, with all the inherent flaws we have etc.
That’s where the comparison was coming from I think. We’re all flawed.
He just was / is dick at the same time.
I still respect him however. Don’t like him much. Think most conversations would become a bit Lord Flashheart after a while. (non-Brits: look it up)
This made my day @MI-XC 