Choosing to compete against Garmin and Zwift at the same time is a tall task.
1 Like
Add Apple to that list, with their moves in the watch space.
1 Like
I’ve had both a Tickr (the usual erratic readings issue) and a Bolt v1 (screen started ‘bleeding’) replaced - both outside warranty but replaced without any problem. +1 for their customer service but as you say, if they had reliable products then one shouldn’t need that service in the first place.
I’ve just had two Tickrs fail within a month - the first went from slightly dodgy data to COMPLETELY dead (no pairing, no data) within two rides - cracked it open and the rubber seal on the battery compartment appears to have disintegrated - chances are my toxic sweat has killed it. The second one is gradually turning into an overpriced random number generator so I’ve just ordered a Polar H10 (they are discounted at the moment on the local Polar site). Will see how that goes although I suspect all HRMs eventually give up the ghost given the hostile environment they operate in - they’re built to a price point, not to be bullet-proof.
Given the woes I’ve read about with the Bolt v2 I’d be reluctant to get one as a replacement if the replacement Bolt v1 gave up. I’m still not completely sold on touchscreen bike computers however two riding buddies have the Karoo v2 and love it, although A$600 is steep.
It’s a shame as it seems Wahoo has kept Garmin “honest” to a degree by providing a viable bike computer alternative - years ago my Strava feed had plenty of ‘Garmin dumped half my ride’ posts, I don’t seem to see it so often these days (have they improved?) so hopefully the competition has forced them to lift their game on the quality of their firmware.
Given the woes I’ve read about with the Bolt v2 I’d be reluctant to get one as a replacement if the replacement Bolt v1 gave up. I’m still not completely sold on touchscreen bike computers however two riding buddies have the Karoo v2 and love it, although A$600 is steep.
I have gone from a Bolt v1 to a Karoo 2. The Bolt is a simpler device but works pretty seamlessly. The Karoo is decent but given the hype I have been somewhat underwhelmed. Certainly if you like buttons the Karoo is going to do nothing to persuade you to like touch screens, sure its responsive when you are sat still, but on the move I find it harder to use than my many-years old Garmin Touring. The Karoo screen might be a visually great from a h/w perspective, but the screens end up a mess and the UI is just poor. If only the Bolt V1 had proper nav it would be a keeper… (I actually prefer the monochrome screen, its far far more visible that the Karoo or my old Garmin on a sunny day). Was really looking forward to the Roam V2 coming out but reviews seem a bit lukewarm… now I am wondering about a 1040…
Can you expand on why you say this? What makes training platform clunky?
I’ll just jump on this to say I would very much miss wahoo from the space but I’m taking Ray’s word for it in that they won’t fail outright, just have a rough spot to get through. That being said I’m guessing I’ve had an irregularly good experience with all 4 of my wahoo items. No trainers but a tickr i’ve had for 5+ years and has only had its strap replaced once (due for another), an ELEMNT which I handed down to the wife when I bought the ROAM for the “color” screen, plus a couple BlueSC. Very happy with the screens and UI because I definitely don’t need touch or anything resembling a phone screen as a bike computer. I like the LCD because it’s easily visible in bright sun and the backlight makes up for the dark stuff. If you don’t like having to go through so many screens to get home I find the solution is to not have that many screens. My only complaint is software/firmware updates seem to break something else. That and they haven’t paired with BLE lights yet either. My only warranty experience was when one of my BlueSCs stopped registering speed and I found the little wire to the hockey stick had severed. Mentioned that to them and they sent me another without so much as asking so I’m cool with that.
All that being said before Ray said his piece I was concerned about having to try a new bike computer ecosystem. The Stages computer looked pretty good to my eye, anybody have any experience with those? So far all that’s been mentioned is Wahoo, Garmin and Karoo.
@NotDavidMillar I have both the Tickr and H10. Both can be finicky. I have bought some replacement straps on Amazon and that has helped. I also try to make sure that the HRM is completely disconnected and dry at the end of the workout by toweling it off and then putting it in front of a fan and then also turning off any devices that are connecting via BT or ANT+. That seems to help with the battery and also keeping the terminals in good shape.
I’m not sure of focusing on smart trainers is the solution. Decathlon just announced a van Rysel branded trainer for 450€. The space will become more commodified and I don’t see that wahoo has enough of an advantage to keep charging their high prices. The top end seems to mostly stagnate while the low end gets closer. The core needs to go down. But even on the top end mir people will think about if paying nearly 1000 more is worth the small improvement.
And therein lies the rub….price points are coming down and Wahoo and other top-end suppliers have not found the next innovation to justify their higher prices.
In my product category, we fight price compression like this all the time….a new supplier enters the market and says to our retailers “I’ll give you more for less” and the retailer jumps at it, forcing us to either add similar features at no cost or lower our price.
Unfortunately, this is very short-sighted, both from the supplier and retailer perspective. In a mature category, you aren’t going to grow the category through price compression….and you are actually taking money out of the category. If a consumer would have previously paid $100 for a feature, but it is now offered at $70, why should they spend the extra $30?
So Wahoo is in a similar position….new suppliers are coming into the category and fighting on price. They need to find ways to innovate at the top end to move consumers up the price continuum or find ways to cut costs and compete at lower price points.
3 Likes
But aren’t expensive trainers still way over priced compared to other exercise equipment? A Wahoo Kickr is $1199 ($799 reburished).
A similarly priced treadmill seems to have a much larger bill of materials and many more moving parts plus a better warranty and way better long term support.
$799 exercise bike:
There are a number of issues with this comparison…first and foremost, as I have argued multiple times, the value of a product is much more than the cost of goods plus a margin. Treadmills have already gone through much of the price compression battles described above. In addition, the volume is significantly higher for treadmills, which lowers the cost of production.
You also have different margin structures from retailers for treadmills vs. trainers, etc.
4 Likes
I agree but we are starting to see this price compression battle.
We’re starting to, but your comparison also utilizes “cheap” treadmills to compare against top of the line trainers. If you want to compare those treadmills a more appropriate comparison would be cheaper wheel on trainers.
3 Likes
100%…which is why i said Wahoo needs to find ways to add innovation to justify their premium position or find ways to compete on price (realistically, they should probably be doing both).
I have a 2017ish kickr and it works fine. I bought it for $500 from a club mate who was moving. That was a great deal 3 years ago when you couldn’t even get a kicker on sale.
The thing is, I use zero of the “features”. I take power from my bike’s power meter. And I don’t use Erg mode.
If I needed a replacement, I’d be thrilled with a manual direct drive trainer that is still adequately quiet.
2 Likes
- I am almost tempted to snag one of these as a “dumb” backup option.
- Kinetic — Kinetic RS Power Bike Trainer - Bike Trainer
1 Like
Glad to know that exists. I wonder how it feels? Have I been spoiled by my Kickr and don’t even know it? It’s the only direct drive trainer I’ve ever been on.
It’s still electronic though (battery operated). 
I considered finding an old Lemond revolution as a backup but my understanding is that they are pretty loud.
It is a Magene T100, with the Kinetic colors slapped on (since Magene bought them), so any of the many T100 reviews can give you a clue. Sounds like a decent budget trainer in the feel’s dept.
- That batteries are only needed if you aim to use it for power data. If you happen to have a PM on your bike, you can skip the trainer battery entirely. That is only a virtual power data anyway, so best if you have a real PM.
- Loud is an understatement.
1 Like
Shocking to me in retrospect that after searching this entire thread I only see a single reference to ComputTrainers or Racermate given the history.
Racermate was obstinate that people would continue to pay a premium for the “gold standard” of the CompuTrainer while refusing to either innovate or lower prices. Also can’t count the number of arguments I had on Slowtwitch with CompuTrainer stans who said Wahoo was just a fad.
I think Wahoo is much better positioned to survive than Racermate was but history repeats itself.
3 Likes
I get your point, but a quick look at the evolution from the first to sixth Kickr show decent development & improvements over the decade or so it existed. It remains a top tier product with features that are still unique or at least rare among other top tier models.
Add in the fact that they covered lower priced options with the Snap initially, followed by the Core. Both have had one revision IIRC since their inception. As mentioned by others, the Core is ripe for some improvements and/or price adjustment to remain competitive in the mid tier (thank to the Hub).
Advancement with the top tier product over time, and expansion to cover multiple price points. From my limited knowledge of the CompuTrainer, they had little if any changes over it’s life and is not really equivalent to the progression we see in Wahoo.
Wahoo has stalled out with their head units as compared to progression via Garmin & Karoo, so that criticism applies there. But Wahoo seems to have done a better job with at least some level of improvement vs the limited bit I know of CT/RM.
3 Likes