So theyre not caricatures? Maybe you can tell me if caricatures of white people are racist? Is a caricatures of someone in a wheelchair ablist?
Thats not a caricature
In general, I agree with that statement. I went to school at Miami (OH) which is named after the Miami tribe of Native Americans. When I was there, the school’s nickname was the Redskins. There was some talk about changing it…but having grown up largely in the DC area, I was kind of against it (tradition, heritage, all the stupid racist excuses).
However, the tribe was not asking the school to change the name (and they had a very good relationship with the school), so I was really OK with it. That changed in the early 90’s (94, I think) and the tribe asked the school to change the name. To their credit, they did so pretty quickly.
I had a similar reaction when the DK name issue came up…the Kaw tribe seemed to be OK with it, so who were we to say different?
That said, there are clearly times when an offensive name is being used and, even though those impacted from it may not disagree in large numbers, it is incumbent upon us to look at what messages such names send. The use of the name “Redskins” is a perfect example…there are a number of Native American Hs sports team that use that name, so the excuse is given that if they are OK with it, other can use it. But that name is clearly racist in origin and should be changed.
Obviously if NA tribes want to use it, that is their choice…it is not the same thing as white people using it. The same can be said for the use of the N-word by some in the black community, or homosexual slurs by the LGBQT community. If anyone can’t see the difference between those groups using those terms vs. society at large, they are part of the problem.
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“a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.”
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You bring up a good point. It will always be somewhat of he said-she said. Caricatures, nicknames, etc will always be a fine line between being racist versus “funny”. Caricatures by nature take the most predominant features and take them to an extreme. A caricature of me in the past showed me with huge ears and nose, both features that are bigger in my face. I thought it was funny and took it as that since I was paying for this to be done to me anyhow, but in the end if somebody did it for me, it would be somewhat as of somebody laughing at my expense.
These are tough times and my best advice is to also consider the others. If others are expressing sentiment that they do not like the word or image shown because its offensive… maybe we should listen to it and understand their point of view.
You are right… my intent of the forum post was never to go into the name controversy since it is water under the bridge… but I understand that the post has fallen that way so I am okay with the title change. Maybe as we get closer and the lottery opens we can have a “Unbound Gravel Lottery” topic
Thanks, Chad.
this post was for @mcneese.chad who modified the title of the post after the fact, his original post were deleted
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All caricatures are offensive then. We should rally against those
Yeah, I killed my posts to keep it clean once I made the changes.
Agreed, that this shifted instantly to the naming and such, so was easiest to just swap this to the off-topic section.
I do think we will want a racing & event focused thread with no off topic stuff in that one. Feel free to make that one and I will make sure to relocate any OT comments to this thread.
I’m fine with changing the name but Wow - they came up with something so generic that it is totally uninspiring. How about Gravel Kansas or Gravel Emporia to reflect the area and the people that built this race into what it was.
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Not want to comment about racial origins of the name change, the execution of a new name and branding sums up perfectly the branding in a bicycle industry (with exclusion of Rapha that is awesome from brand point of view) - so generic, uninspiring and blant that it hurts.
Dirty Kanza name had its own vibe of something hard, challenging. Unbound Gravel is like sunday charity ride with people that are dusting off their bikes after 10 years in a garage. The logo is also blah… OK maybe working in branding I am too concerned about such things, and I do know they do not matter as much as people think in a long term and in a whole picture of brand experience, but honestly whole industry is like 20 years behind everything else that is going in the market…
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You’ll have to point out where I said they are not caricatures.
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Asking you to confirm your position since you said “caricatures”.
Let me know which word or phrase you are having a problem with…my “position” seems pretty clear.
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Thats ok then. If your position is that clear then you wont need to contribute anything further to the conversation
So you can’t point out where I said they weren’t caricatures…got it.
Thought so.
Like I said, the fact that you can’t recognize the inherent racism in those caricatures is telling.
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Youre still missing the point which is why im happy to move on from it. Putting “…” around the word caricature suggests that to me that you are casting doubt over the use of the word.
I simply asked you to clarify this. I never claimed that you said or didnt say anything…
people’s intentions can still be misguided and wrong. In fact, I think most things that are inherently wrong start with good intentions because I choose to believe people aren’t inherently evil or mean-spirited. So, given that, it’s important that clearer minds constantly speak up to correct ill-conceived ideas, even those that aren’t intentional. Someone not knowing any better isn’t an excuse.
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when a nation systemically forced an indigenous people to relocate and otherwise marginalize and then turns around and uses their names/images/heritages for their popular culture, that is not honoring, that is exploiting and basically a continuous slap in the face.
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A point well made, i agree!
I don’t want to speak for @Power13 but I don’t think he is saying that it isn’t a caricature but rather that it isn’t just a caricature. I think a lot of people think of a caricature as the funny drawing you pay for at a fair or something but they aren’t always so jovial and well intentioned. Caricatures have a long history of being used with racist intentions and have gone hand-in-hand with things like minstrelsy and blackface.
So yeah, they can be harmless but they can also just be racist and disrespectful to an entire race of people that this country has a long and bloody history of mistreating (to put it lightly).
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