For very short distances like 5sec, rowers probably can put out higher power compared to cyclists because more muscles are in use. But as duration increases, back/arms become bottleneck, not legs or cardiovascular system.
Or at least this was my experience as 1y beginner before picking up cycling (reached near 2x 1M club). If you have done real strength training, it might be different for you. All I had was body-weight training (pushups, pullups).
My best 2k remained 7:08 as lightweight, pushing 285w avg (306/262/275/299 splits). During this effort it was cardiovascular system limiter indeed. Probably one of hardest stuff I ever done, reaching nearest to throwing up. Best for 1h was 173w, but I can’t remember doing so long max efforts unfortunately. It was more likely tempoish effort. Anyway, ratio is ~1.64.
With cycling, it is 7m at 317w / 1h at 270w = ~1.17 (with real efforts).
Obviously, my data does not make good comparison. At that time, rowing was my first aerobic training lasting more than year, I knew nothing about progressive overload, recoveries, etc. Basically doing random stuff.
With your cycling structured training knowledge, I am sure you’ll make way better use of time than me
Actually, you might be right, asked also ChatGPT ‘rowing vs cycling power curve for various durations’. Got image where curve is more similar than I assumed:
Claims it bases it on data from: The power numbers in the graph are based on general ranges observed in athletic populations and sports science literature but are approximations rather than direct data from specific sources.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I always think of ftp as ‘at least 30mins’ steady max effort too, so not necessarily a full 60min which I’ve basically never done, tho plenty of 20min max tests.
Love to see ChatGPT confirming my priors. Never asked it a question before, but love to see it! lol
Also, as far as that graph goes, the only thing that matters for my method is the assumption that the line for cycling and rowing stay approximately parallel (for the ratio calculation to hold). For 5min and beyond, that appears to be the case
I took up rowing (on the water) in the off season and bought a C2 ERG (rowing machine) in Oct. I took Oct/Nov very easy to work on technique and get the body used to it, then did quite a bit of slow/steady meters on the ERG in december. Split time with the bike ~50/50 during the off season.
Watts on the ERG are humbling if comparing to cycling watts (at least for me). My final hard effort on the ERG at the end of Dec. was a 5k time trial effort at about 220w. It felt just like a cycling 20’ FTP test, I was questioning early whether I could hold the pace and had nothing left at the end. So, whatever my FTP on the rower is, it’s under 220w. My cycling FTP might drop to around 290w in the off season, so that makes the rowing FTP (with similar aerobic fitness) at least 25% lower in comparison.
I’m trying to keep a ~30’ erg session in my routine this year to keep some of those muscles firing. It’s tough as the hours on the bike ramp up, but I feel like the rowing is doing the body good using more muscles.
Imo, do a 10km TT if you want an estimate close to FTP.
2km is very, very close to a VO2max effort (depending on ones rowing level.) Working out threshold of it is going to vary depending on the persons fractional utilisation.
You could assume the same as cycling but its likely to be inaccurate unless you are lucky they align.
A 5km erg TT which was one of the criteria for boat selection (that was just the start, have the engine, you then had to prove you could move a boat) is a 16 - 19 minute effort for decent club rowers so less than the bike 20 minute test.
My cycling peak power and 5s is, or was, about 30 watts higher than rowing erg.
C2 erg 1100w 1:08/500m, Bike 1130w
C2 18 minutes = 280w
Bike 18 minutes = 300w
But when I look at a 10km TT about 37 minutes they switch.
C2 37m ~ 257 watts (10km erg test)
Bike 37m ~ 285 watts (part of a long threshold test)
I have a C2 ERG and been using a rowing app called EXR (exrgame.com), which has a ramp test to calculate FTP. There’s also some decent training plans based on FTP. I think of them like Zwift for rowing. They do not provide NP or TSS that I can see, but they do export to TrainingPeaks which does give you both.
FWIW, in my experience, my rowing FTP (currently 110) is about 50% of my cycling FTP (240). I don’t row very consistently and mainly in the colder months. I cycle much more often and year-round.
Interesting to see your numbers… How ‘well trained’ are you on the erg as opposed to cycling? Like for example, did you row in a club and trained on an erg for a few years? Similar for cycling?
Im surprised to see your 18 minutes to be so close.
I figured you were because thats a very nice 5k. Im a border line lightweight rower (only been doing an erg for 4 months now), but very well trained on the bike (almost a decade of training). My 20 min cycling power numbers for a 20min test would be considered super high on an erg, even for a 2k pace (375-400w), so it made me assume your rowing fitness was quite a bit higher than the bike work for your two number to be so close. Or maybe i’ll just become a beast on the ERG in a few months? lol I wouldnt mind it if it happens that way!
Somewhat related to this topic, but more of an equipment question: Has any one tried using the Rogue Echo Rower and does it have any advantage over the Concept 2 for integration with TR for tracking TSS etc.? It looks like it will be easier to track HR. But what about syncing with 3rd party stuff? Any one have experience with this specific rower?
I haven’t tried the Rogue, but I researched options quite a bit before buying a C2 ERG in October. By almost all accounts, the Rogue is a high quality machine, maybe even better constructed than the C2 in some ways. But C2 is the standard, they have a huge ecosystem/community built around it, and the company support is off the charts. Very simple to push workouts from the ERG to strava/TR/etc. If you want to compare times to others, C2 is the reference. Concept 2 is not the most cutting edge technology company, but their stuff works and it’s a great family owned business that supports the rowing community. I have no affiliation, just really impressed with everything I’ve learned about this company. You can still get parts (for dirt cheap) for basically every ERG they have made. That can’t be profitable, but that’s how they roll. They still sell parts for this thing -
