Trainers, Power Meters and More with DC Rainmaker – Ask a Cycling Coach 219

Not anymore on YouTube?

I think they were limited in setup this week since they were traveling out of the country.


Pretty shocked to hear Ray pimp the Kickr. I’ve personally sent back 3 of them. There is a near 500 post thread on here illustrating the magnitude of the issues with their products and customer service. Kickr Issues Thread.

On Ray’s website there is a video from January with the CEO trying to defend their issues where Ray says “Finally, I don’t really have any overall concerns with recommending any of these brands/trainers.”

Kind of defeats the purpose of offering product reviews does it not?

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Not sure I follow. I’ve talked extensively about the issue, more than anyone else. Seriously, every post/video/etc I mention the KICKR I’ve called out those issues. I wrote an entire post about it. I published a full video on it. Let me know when you find someone else (any outlet for that matter) that’s done that.

Yet, one doesn’t mean the other isn’t true. I totally get people have had crap luck, some more than others. But the numbers game simply doesn’t support it being a widespread issue anymore in 2019. Last fall? Absolutely. Likely 4-6% or greater, which is thousands of people. It’s also why if you look at the thread linked, a number of the people having problems had KICKR’s from that timeframe.

Details matter. Understanding what the actual problem is and determining when or where a KICKR came from mattes. The KICKR someone buys in 2019 is different than one from Nov or even Dec 2018. Have they fixed every possible avenue of failure? No, obviously not. But they’ve fixed enough of them that I think the chances of hitting a bad KICKR are super slim (less than 1% is my guess), and if you do, Wahoo’s exceptionally good about fixing/replacing it quickly (just as they were last fall). Just like linking to that thread - details matter. If you look at the thread you’ll see that by and large in the last few months the responses have mostly stopped, with just a trickle of people discussing what appear to be older units.

At the end of the day, I don’t really care what anyone buys - it doesn’t matter to me. I’m just giving people the actual facts to decide for yourself - versus internet forum swirling hyperbole. If after 3 replaced units for whatever reasons you want to go to another brand - that makes perfect sense to me. But it also doesn’t change my opinion, because I can look at the larger data sets and say that at this point that’s just not the norm for 99% of people.


Not to mention that citing statistics on a thread that specifically targets users with issues is being blinded by selection bias.


I agree, which is why I thought sharing some of that info would be worth mentioning on the podcast. I felt the unbridled positivity was a bit much. You mentioned your issues with the Tacx, don’t understand giving Wahoo a pass without doing the same.

@dcrainmaker last time you were on the show (I think last time) you said you expected running powermeters to really kick on but they just don’t seem to have since hte stryd came out. Do you still expect movement on them in the future or have people shelved the technology? Thanks

I think it’s dying off. Most of it is self-inflicted by various players.

Garmin: They haven’t spent the time to ensure their watches actually are usable from a structured running power workout standpoint. So if TR for example were to make running power workouts, they wouldn’t actually work on Garmin wearables.

Stryd: Simply too expensive to became even niche mainstream. Needs to be sub-$100 at most.

RunScribe: Well, they got out of the business

Polar/Suunto: They’ve actually done a good job at supporting things, but just have the market share to move the needle.

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Thanks for such a great podcast.

I finally bought a Kickr Core after listening to this. I had spent years trying to convince myself “indoor trainers can’t have improved that much”. Turns out they had.

How do you like the Core? Have a wheel-on Cycleops right now (still able to return to REI) but thinking of exchanging for the Core.

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I don’t know if I am qualified to say having only ridden it for an hour. But so far I love it. It is incredibly quiet. The erg mode is amazing. Set up was easy.

I’m not sure if it has made me a faster cyclist, but having 2 of my favorite podcasters in the same episode has made me a faster podcast listener. :grinning:

Are there any photos of the “bike of Damocles”?

I bought the Core last year when it just came out as my first trainer.
I’ve not had any problems with it except for some stickers that flew off the brake.

It’s quiet enough to run in an apartment, especially if the chain is clean/waxed and if you but it on a smaller cog upfront.

It handles exercises such Spanish Needle pretty good, it doesn’t always shift to the right power numbers in ERG mode, but I am also not sure if any other trainer hits them 100% right all the time.

I am happy with my purchase

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Thanks for the input. I plan on using it in an apartment so ideally it would be quiet. The M2 I have right now feels like I it rocks/shifts a bit unnaturally which I don’t like. Any issues with respect to the KICKR doing this?

One time it was rocking a bit, but that was my fault as hadn’t secured the bike properly.
I think I put it in a bit crooked and didn’t tighten the quick-release enough.

After I corrected that it went back to normal, I have a training mat under the bike/trainer so that helps with the absorption.

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Sounds like the Hammer is a good choice as well.
Any views on their customer service if any issues?

Good experience with the Saris group the 2 times I needed to use them.

Saris has always been good to me. One with a rack issue and the other a power tap hub a few years back. No questions asked. Which is why the Hammer H3 will be my next trainer. Especially with the price at $999

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@Jonathan, haven’t you heard of the new Favero Assioma SPD pedals?

Hoping to verify the accuracy this weekend vs my trainer. Not sure about the durability though.

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Seems like Garmin is preparing a new launch, anybody have an idea on how accurate a wind based power meter is?

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