Reread what I wrote.
Point being, you can QC in the states, but if you catch anything, you’re 3+ months behind.
Problems need to be nipped in the bud.
Again, there are many reasons that bike companies have employees based in Asia…monitoring lead times is just one of them.
I never said anything about “monitoring lead times”. This isn’t an issue of cracking the whip.
I’m sorry…you said they were “babysitting to control the lead time.”
My point stands…thee are many employees there that do jobs far above “controlling” lead times. Engineers, product managers, purchasing agents, etc.
I think the idea was that they are there to ensure that turnaround time between something being identified as wrong and then fixed is as short as possible. If you have someone on the ground who looks at/tests (flexes, checks tolerances, checks weight etc) the first 5 bikes from each batch, you don’t have to wait until they have been shipped halfway across the world to point out flaws (and then ship them back again). So it’s not lead time from design-> product, but issue snagging time.
That was what the Factor guy was saying anyway - I will echo the recommendation for that Cycling Tips podcast with him.
That is absolutely one of the roles that Asian-based employees do. I am certainly not saying otherwise.
What I AM saying, is that there are many more roles and responsibilities that employees of bike companies do when they are based in Asia.
Let me give you an example…back when I was working for one of the bigger brands, we had a trading company working for us in Taiwan. They were largely our “feet on the ground” in both China and Taiwan. They performed innumerable tasks…engineering being one of the key ones (so really, calling them a “trading company” is a bit of a misnomer).
That relationship has now become more sophisticated and many brands now have dedicated offices and employees based in Asia. Those employees aren’t just monitoring lead times and performing QC functions.
The Nerd Alert pod is definitely a good listen. I know Rob and he is really smart, successful guy…but I think he simplified the relationship a bit between brands and factories, or perhaps was speaking more to just his relationships. The bigger brands do have carbon fiber experts on staff and work directly with factories, at times even giving them specific layups, etc. He was absolutely correct that may brands, however, basically bring a shape and then the factory will then figure out how to execute that shape.
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How big do you have to be before you have that relationship where you have deep input into the manufacturing process? Clearly the likes of Giant and Merida have been in the factories for years, one assumes that the bigger industry players like Specialized or Trek would be in there too, but also that once you get below a certain scale, you have to rely more on your manufacturing partners for design/layup expertise as well as just production. Is it just a function of brand origin (ie if you started out in the far east or started out in carbon, as opposed to originating using steel in Italy) and units sold?
Giant is a bit of an anomaly because they ARE the factory., so the line are pretty blurred there. Specialized is also in a unique position as Merida owns 49% of them, so again, the factory owns at least part of the brand.
I can’t speak specifically as to which brands have dedicated offices, but it is an expanding list. I know that one “smedium” sized brand just opened an office in Taiwan, which surprised me a bit. Now, what roles are being fulfilled out of that office, I don’t know
It really depends on the goals of the company and the resources available to them.
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For me, the real question is what brands are in this category, and why should I pay a premium for those brands vs. go with a factory direct option. If (a reasonably big if) I can deal with a factory of similar competency directly that makes an open-mold frame of an acceptable shape, I’d strongly consider that as it cuts out a huge amount of mark-up.
Price/performance ratio is an important consideration to me, and extra middle-men and markup rarely add meaningful value. I think direct to consumer will be a growing threat to the established bike brands. I also think that if velofix and other mobile bike repair services gain traction this will help up and coming direct to consumer brands, as this enables some customer support options that aren’t available through local bike shops due to existing brand relationships.
I do try to support my LBS, but spending $1000s more on a bike to do so is not something I’m going to do. That said, the last time I bought a new bike was a Bridgestone RB-1, so they haven’t missed many bike sales to me 
You are leaving out a critical element…quality and liability.
When you deal with an open source frame / component, you have no idea what quality testing they have done, how reliable the piece may be, etc. Further, you’ll have no recourse if something catastrophic happens. Steerer tube breaks while you are on a mountain descent? Tough luck…you are on your own.
There are many factories out there that will substitute cheaper materials into a design that may “look” the same but in reality isn’t. And anecdotal experiences aren’t worth much, either…sure you buddy have have gotten a set of handlbars that work fine, but maybe when you order yours the factory has decided they need to lower their raw material costs to boost profits, so you have cheaper resin or more glass filler. Looks the same, but your’s breaks in a sprint for the town sign.
A lot of people obviously get stuff directly from a factory…hell, I’ve done it. As a matter of fact, I just recently swapped out an integrated bar / stem combo that I had bought directly from a factory. TBH, I am greatly relieved that I did it…having a nagging question in the back of my head about my bars was not comforting.
I agree there are more unkowns going direct, but liability (aka someone to sue) is really all you know for sure, at least if they are US based. I am assuming that the ‘name brand’ is higher quality, because they charge more. If they are really outsourcing all of the technical details of building the frame to the manufacturer, the brand itself may not be actually adding any quality. Their marketing will say they do, and have all kinds of expertise, etc, but what are they actually doing? It’s not the Trek, Specialized, etc that I’m talking about, but smaller/newer brands.
While the details that I have found are slim, it looks like the ‘boutique’ Nove bike brand is possibly doing not much more than nice paint jobs on open-mold frames, while giving the image of being much more.
Name brand, expensive, ‘quality’ manufacturers are unable or unwilling to produce press-fit BB shells with proper tolerances, so I remain skeptical of value that well-known bike brands provide.
Thanks for all the information/thoughts/input advice everyone has given. I’ve decided to steer away from an open mold type bike and looking at getting a 2016 Trek Madone or Specialized Tarmac (fact 10r). Can’t quite decide between the two but leaning towards Madone as the area I live is pretty flat with only some small rollers.(typically 1000ft of climbing in 20 miles)
Thoughts?
It is more than just “someone to sue”…it is about a company taking the time to properly test and evaluate frames, components, etc. before selling them.
One company I worked for was painstaking in how we tested products. Every new stem, handlebar, etc. was thoroughly fatigued tested and static load tested. We beat the schitt out of everything. And much of the stuff (stems, seatposts, etc) were just stock components form a suppliers catalog (so, in a sense, “open mold”).
That is what you get when you buy from established brands. That is why those bikes cost more. Or at least part of the reason why.
I think you are reading too much into the idea of “outsourcing all the technical details”. Yes, some brands will let the factories work on the carbon specifics, but they are the ones who set the standards in terms of performance, quality and ride characteristics. It isn’t like they draw up shapes on a computer, scan them and then e-mail them to Asia.