Yeah…it all looks weird! 
But he probably knows what he’s doing more than I do.
His bike fit is certainly not one to try to mimic! Very very narrow bars, custom shoes (slip on carbon things with semi-midsole cleats), very forward position with seat post set forward not back. That looks like a track bike too so maybe a touch more extreme than his road but maybe not a lot.
Sorry but TT isn’t my think. My only thought was you didn’t look comfortable. Static pictures?
Yeah, static pictures. I’m actually pretty comfy in this position. Only thing that requires a bit of effort is my head position.
Overall it seems like a decent starting point.
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You seem to be shrugging your shoulders towards your ears. Is intentional? If not, I’d be interested to see you lower the angle of the extensions a bit. Up it something I like and tend to find works well for many riders. Yours are very high, and I wonder if they are too much so.
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Largely personal preference, but keep in mind that you have two options for placing your lower arm. Some like the direct elbow support like you have. Others like riding a bit further back with the large forearm muscle on the pad and the elbow floating just a bit behind (1-3 “fingers” back is my “gauge”). I’d be curious to know what you think of the elbow support and if you tried arm support.
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If your main goal is to get lower, I think you can do so with dropping the extension supports in 5-10mm steps and evaluate the feel after a ride or two. If you can’t step down there, use head set spacers in a similar pattern.
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Hard to say from a static pic, but your saddle could be a tad high, depending on your ankling under power.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Yeah, this shrugging was intentional to show how I ride when in the aerobars. I find having them angled up makes it easier to relax my shoulders, lower my head and it prevents me from slipping off the saddle. I’ll see how it feels if I lower them a bit.
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I have tried the arm support, but that made me feel a bit cramped. Having my elbows a bit more to the front stretches me out and gives me more breathing room. Support on my elbows also feels pretty sturdy, requiring very little effort. My arm pads are also quite deep, so I have no issues bouncing off when hitting a rough patch.
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Dropping the extensions is indeed my prefered option, but these are the only ones I have atm and new ones are pretty pricy. So for now I’ll use the head set spacers and see how that feels.
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Good point. I’m still undecided if it’s too high or not. For reference, I have no hamstring pain or anything and as far as I can feel my hips aren’t rocking about when pedaling.
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Cool. I think you have this pretty well thought out. As long as you don’t experience pain or discomfort as you lower the setup, I say keep dropping and watch your comfort and related power along the way. Stop or revert as needed if something goes awry.
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Open Question: Why is my indoor/on-trainer position so much different than my outdoor/on-road position?
Indoor pos. is long & low a la Steve Bauer:
Outside pos. is short & high a la Adam Hansen:
Trainer is a wheel-on KK; axles are level (also tried setting pos. w/ riser via Hogg’s hill protocol).
Saddle height difference is ~1 inch between the two, with corresponding fore/aft adjustments.
Neither present joint pain and both are a lot different from my “pro” bike fits.
The outside Hansen-esque position is comfy although riding no-hands is a bit sketchy.
The indoor ‘Hog’ position checks all the Hogg boxes, e.g. torso stability w/ hands off drops, etc.
The long-low pos actually completely eliminated my right posterior chain pain - from glute to ankle, but does result in more quad soreness (obviously the load has moved from back to front).
I have as close to a mid-sole cleat position as possible (Sidi + Shimano).
It’s driving me bonkers because neither position feels right in the opposite setting.
As far as I can see, there’s only one solution – ride only outside. 
Thanks to all who answer!
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Speculation, but consider the key differences between inside & outside for possible variables:
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Lack of wind resistance inside vs outside. I have a theory that the wind resistance outside leads to a weight shift slightly rearward. I find that the same position I use outside overloads my hands inside. I compensate by raising the front axle height 1-2" higher than the rear axle. This leads to a weight shift that places more weight on the saddle and off the hands. This works for me, but not for everyone that I have shared the option.
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Inertia differences from outside vs trainer flywheel (can vary with each trainer and even gearing on the same trainer). This can lead to different loading on the legs and core. It may lead to purely different support via forces in the chain, that manifest in the saddle and hand position comfort. Your changes may account for those differences.
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Freedom of movement outside vs more restricted movement inside. A fully rigid setup is unlike outside riding in many ways. Adding motion via rocker plates for trainers or rollers, can all help a bit by adding freedom of movement in one or more directions, and can also lead to more muscle engagement that is similar to outside use.
What else am I missing on the key differences?
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Any tips on finding a good fitter? What to look for and questions to ask? Anyone with recommendations within a 4hr drive from the WI/IL//IA tri state area(Chicago, Des Moines, Milwaukee)? Do I want to find someone with experience/expertise in gravel bike setup?
And he’s still UCI bottom bracket legal!
Basic recommendation is to talk to prior customers of the fitter and/or shop. This can be tricky as I understand that fitters may be justifiable reluctant to hand out customer contact info. So it may take open questions in cycling group circles or apps around the area.
Questions to ask may center around what their entire fit process includes. Many will include a verbal interview as a short rider history and asking about goals or problem areas of interest. Then on to a physical assessment to look at the rider body alignment, flexibility and such. Then onto the actual on bike fitting.
You can also ask about their approach, what is their focus (hopefully what YOU want to focus on vs what THEY want to focus on). Keep in mind that fit tools are only as good as the fitter running them, so really pay attention to the fitter and their responses vs what amazing tech they may or may not have on hand. Many of the best fitters in the world can eyeball a fit better than hacks like me with random tech.
Gravel fits are quite similar to road fits, with a potential emphasis on comfort more than performance, but that is very subject to the goals of the rider.
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Another long one, sorry.
I’ve mentioned my experiences with pro-fitters before a few times and would always work with a fitter who had a physio /physical therapy background over anyone else.
They still need experience fitting bikes (and to be a good physio!), need to be riders themselves and even better if have suffered issues with their own bike fit.
I turned up to a bike fit with a highly recommended physio based fitter and was sent away after 60 minutes with a rehabilitation programme. Rather than complete a compromised fit they knew I would not be happy with, they saw weakness in me (specifically muscle activation and ability to support a vaguely sporty position) and believed some work off the bike could resolve it. Some weeks later I went back, had another physio assessment (huge improvement), a visual assessment on the bike from which we agreed a frame change was needed (a frame I was fitted to by another pro fitter).
I got specific advice on reach/stack and angles, went and bought a frame and built it up. Fit it to myself and tweaked over a few weeks.
Went back a 3rd time, quick physio assessment and as that was positive a visual fit. The changes were minor as I had fit it on feel, and what feels good usually is good!
Total cost was half that of a typical bike fit, it was basically 3 very reasonable physio sessions.
The result was the best I have ever felt on the bike. Annoyingly I didn’t keep that form up, I’ve let myself to, and due to that I am not as comfortable as I could be again.
It is worth mentioning a fit never ends. One fit won’t work for life. Injuries happen, amount of time on bike changes, your body changes, all these things can change what works. You may not need a full fit regularly but over time may find you get shorter or longer.
One thing to note is everyone has a ‘range’ they can be fit within. A lot of people go to the most extreme of that when dialling it back would be more appropriate.
In that same line of thinking you may or may not want one fit for everything you do. If you race crits and also do sportives you might have a bike at each end of the fit window. If you ride CX you might have a fit for traction/balance that is slacker than a road fit, it isn’t just the bike angles are slightly different.
Back to the thread. Questions to ask:
How long have they been fitting, is it their main job, what is their professional background that supports fitting, how will they know you am fit to be fit, what tools do they use, how do they deal with leg length discrepancies, how do they deal with injuries.
Just to mention my first, worst and most expensive fit ended up with cleats in different places to match me to Retul’s suggested angles. I was fitted to numbers above anything else. The guy is an irregular cyclist who does mechanic work and sales. His background is being around bikes and doing a 2 day Retul course. This for me is the worst kind of fit you can get!
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Latest update - Mt Goode today, so a good, long test for the current fit.
For those who’ve missed the previous season:
I have:
- stacked the bars fully
- dropped the saddle back to original position
- saddle still fully back
Result: front/inside knee pain is gone. A bit of pain on the 3rd intervals on the outside/front of the right knee, I only had to “pop/click” my right knee once.
ITB feels quite tight after the ride. I haven’t rolled it yesterday, will do this today, it usually helps greatly.
Slight discomfort on the left knee, but that was here then gone. I don’t see that as significant.
Hands: I really feel like my bars are too wide. The problem to be on the hoods is not the reach, it’s the width.
I can stay on the hoods for extended periods of time, but the “normal” position @Boombang has decribed is not as good as the alternate position I use (gripping with the bottom of the hands) mainly because my wrists feels better that way.
Something new in this posture: Slight numbing of the undercarriage
One thing that could be of note:
I wonder if I could be sitting twisted on the saddle 
I don’t know if i should pay attention to the cycling dynamics, but, although the balance is 50/50, the power phase is quite different:
I need to ask the wife to take a look one of these days.
I’d ignore cycling dynamics for now, if you are not comfortable or experiencing pain your body will react and subconsciously (or consciously) you will move on the bike.
Your priority had to be to get into a safe and comfortable position on the bike. Doing 90 minute FTP workouts with pain (knee or otherwise) does not sound the right thing to be doing. You are making multiple changes at the same time, to complement that you should also consider reducing load/work done to make sure that you aren’t introducing issues that could lead to injury.
I think you need to see a physiotherapist or other health professional who knows bikes, knees and hips.
Pain outside/front knee could be a multitude of factors (stance width, foot direction, saddle height, setback - all the things you have been adjusting.
Here I have no more advice if you have addressed everything from foot support to cleat position to saddle position and reach, apart from to find a neutral and comfortable cleat position. It might be you have an issue with that knee that cannot be worked around on a bike fit without professional support. Even the best physio would struggle to do that without seeing you.
The bars being too wide is strange, bars can feel wide or narrow but that shouldn’t stop you being able to hold the hoods - that sounds to me like you still have way too much weight on the hands (holding tops pushes weight back). The numbing of undercarriage can be a sign of that too.
I would suggest you have a read of the below on the balance on a saddle - doesn’t seem to matter for everyone and I think this changes hugely on a trainer versus outside, but in yours case is worth exploring.
On the knee front it sounds like it is time to get medical advice. On the basis of just that I am not that comfortable giving you many more suggestions as could be making it a lot worse when all I’d liek to do is help,
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I finally tried this last night halfway through baxter - not quite an inch of front lift - it was immediately better! I noticed it a bit in my hands, but even more valuable was less pressure on front of saddle and felt much closer to outside balance.
Very good tip! I was going to quit at 60 mins and ended up doing the full 90.
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Fantastic! So glad it helped, thanks for the feedback. 
Noted. Cycling Dynamics ignored 
So, the 90 mins workout was actually ok, it’s only the last 10-15 that were uncomfortable, and far from the pain I experienced before.
In relation to the changes. I usually do one change at a time, and if it doesn’t work, I put things back like they were before, then change another thing.
Hence, now my saddle is back to what it was 2 weeks ago. My stem is higher now that what it was when it started. My cleats are better positioned I feel, I have a pretty neutral position, with no pain in the feet.
On the knee: it gets under control with foam rolling. I just need to be disciplined and keep going at it.
Finally the bars: I can stay on the hoods, but I don’t feel like it’s the most comfortable, still.
I do have to do a lot more work on my core, I think that’s at least half of the issue 
I’ve also got a physio booked, on top of the bike fit.
I need to check the credentials of the fitter…
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Good to hear, sorry if I sound dramatic I would hate to cause anyone an injury. I’m not an expert, just a guy on a forum who loves bike and has spent 5 years trying to get comfortable.
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From a guy with some training and similar personal experience, I’d say you have a VERY good handle on the many perspectives and considerations within the realm.
You’ve done some great work here, IMHO. I’m happy you are here and sharing your ideas.
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