try the summer shoes on the winter bike, if you still have trouble, its the cleat position/setup
As with most fitting, there is not always a 1:1 for change to outcome.
Saddle forward may make the upper body more upright and could lead to a weight shift back, and more saddle pressure (less on hands).
However, it also moves the rider center of mass forward, and could lead to more weight on hands.
So much of this depends on how the upper body adjusts to the saddle shift. Arm and upper body position may move in unison, or they may alter their positions. There is so much ability for the body to alter position, there is no guarantee that change X leads to impact Y.
He would need to swap pedals too, since they are incompatible cleat designs.
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And have to walk reasonable distances through my office building either on slippery cleats or in socks.
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@mcneese.chad Hi mate,
I asked a while back about my bike fit, Iām looking for the most performance out of my fit, ive videoād it, and taken it into Kinovea where it came out with extension angles of about 43-45 degrees, how do you think my fit looks? and how would you suggest i get any more performance out of it?
Here is a link to the video:
Many thanks
Be careful mimicking TT position on road bike as it can make the steering more twitchy when you are hunched over it. For normal road bike use climbs and descents it will feel less stable
Overall, it looks good to me.
It is notable that when you change from the drops to the hoods, you lift and reposition further back on the saddle. Do you know why you did that?
You say you want more performance.what exactly do you mean by that?
More power, more aero, more comfort?
If you squat for example, check what happens if you stand with your back to the wall. You try to squat, then your butt hits the wall and you either donāt go any further down or you fall over forward.
I just went through this. Got more and more annoying how much upper body weight I have to support with my arms. Also I think it saps performance, imagine holding up a couple of dumbbells for an hour or two ā thatās work that could go into moving the pedals. So I read up on this and started moving the seat back, which yes is counter intuitive but I can here verify that this does work. I have good core strength and flexibility, I think some people hit problems because of functional limitations, but for me it looks like simply I was off balance too much. The test is to be able to sit up on the bike from hands on hoods position without helping it with your arms at all.
Now Iām pretty puzzled about this. With a 25mm setback seatpost and seat almost all the way back (and I have to use 70mm stem to not have too weird of a reach), itās way better but I still canāt fully relax my arms at below FTP pedaling effort. And this is on an endurance bike with shorter top tube and higher stack. Seems like Iām a bit of an outlier but that doesnāt really sound right, sure I have a bit longer then average legs but 5ā11" and 155lbs with 56cm frame seems not right I have to to to extremes like huge seat setback and tiny stem.
Ah, also I played with the seat angle and in my case it made a fair amount of difference. Having it tilted forward promotes sliding forward and more weight on hands but of course itās easier to anchor sit bones. There seems to be a fairly narrow ācorrectā seat angle.
more power, more aero, the comfort side isnāt an issue for me. I like to shunt myself into the back of the saddle when on the hoods, feels better i think. i dont slip forward or anything i think i do it to elongate my body a bit more. I feel like i should be able to get more leg extension, but donāt know what would be limiting me? tight hams? If i was to increase the leg extension, how do you suggest? saddle up and forward?
Aero is a challenge with no testing. But I think your current position looks good from that end.
Power can also be tricky, but your observations and RPE can be useful. It seems your saddle could a bit low. Do you feel excessive loading in the quads around the knee in high power efforts?
For a test, Iād say you can simply raise the saddle 5mm and try it. Pay attention to the feel in the quads and hammy. Watch for changes that lead to poor stroke from over extending the knee or ankle. And also be sure you donāt start rocking sideways in the saddle. Any of these are signs you are too highā¦
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I donāt feel strain in the knees at all, a bit in the quads, Iāll pop the saddle up a bit, try it out, do some long rides, if i donāt get saddle sores or feel myself shifting forward, iāll probably keep it. Iāll also work on stretching the hammys. next time im on the turbo iāll film it again and compare to see if the knee angle changes or the ankle just compensates. IF the ankle is compensating, what would you suggest?
As long as you donāt experience pain or discomfort, and the ankle is still working naturally, you may not need to do anything.
If it feels odd or you are it making large swings in angle to get the extension, cut the saddle height change in half and try again.
It may be exposing a range of motion limit, and that could be something to address with separate training, stretching and such. Iām no physio, so I choose to fit to the body at the time of the fit, not the one that a rider might have.
Keep that in mind as you make changes to your bike and/or body. Best to fit to the present, but its good to address limitations and refit as needed.
Iāve gotten deep into this thread in attempts to fine-tune my fit, and Iām amazed and thankful for your insight. I was having some front of knee pain but Iāve managed to get a pretty good fit and eliminate that, but I think I went too high with my saddle. I did a from behind video and couldnāt get a great view of my hips through my black bibs, but I did notice something else and wanted to get your thoughts.
What I noticed was that my torso/shoulders moved away from the pedal stroke. What I mean by that is, when my left leg is powering through the stroke and down, my body/torso/shoulders would move to the right. And the same for the other leg. Always moving away from the down pedal. My thought is, that my saddle is too high, so the pushing leg is stretching towards the down pedal to complete the pedal, causing my upper body/torso to have to bend the opposite way to compensate. Does this make sense? Iām going to lower my saddle some and retake the video, hoping to get a better hip view and compare my torso.
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Yes, that sounds like a very likely reason for your experience.
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I think the drop and retest are going to be telling. How much are you planning to lower vs how much you previously raised it?
It was at 82cm BB to saddle at itās highest. I have a 90cm inseam and run 175mm cranks for reference at 190cm tall. I dropped it 5mm and just about to hop on for a quick ride. Will that be enough drop? I figured Iād start small and see how it feels/looks.
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Sure, 5mm is a good start. You can always drop more if it feels good, but seems like you have more to move.
Dropped it 5mm down to 81.5 and did a 45 min ride on the trainer. It felt good, but to be perfectly honest, Iām not sure if I could tell much of a difference. I remeasured my inseam with the help of my wife and itās actually 92cm. Which may change things a bit but Iām going to leave my saddle where it is and see how it goes. I filmed again and noticed less movement of the shoulders, but Iām not sure how still my upper body should be. I also was able to notice some hip rocking. How much is normal or should my hips be still?
This is the second video after dropping the saddle.
There may be a bit of extra hip movement, but a side view could be useful to make sure you arenāt over extending your leg. You can sure drop another 5mm and test again, with the rear look. But a side view should be added to see what the stroke looks like from there.
Thanks for the lengthy explanation, makes sense. I loved my saddle back to its old position and that relived the pressure on my hands. However with the saddle back in this position I started to experience some mild numbness about 30 minutes into a trainer ride. This was still much better than with my previous saddle. I think I am going to return this saddle and try something with a larger cut out like the Selle Italia Super Flow SLR. Also need to get started on making a rocker plate.
Hey guys, recently picked up a new tarmac frame and Iām still sorting out the fit. No pictures yet, but could post if needed.
My main issue is some soreness in my upper, outer quad. Almost my hips if that makes sense. Also some soreness in my inner, lower quad, near the knee. Finally, there is some lower back pain. Saddle height should be pretty good, it is at what Iād run on my old road bike. One thing that is different is my saddle tip to bar is a little further back than usual to bring my knee over the spindle. Also, I had a terrible fit guy messing with my cleats.
What do you guys think? Saddle too fore/aft? Cleat issues? Thanks.