I can certainly understand being curious about replacing what mother nature is so cruelly taking away. But three quick points…
-Once you go on the needle and your balls shrivel up you’re going to be on it or thinking about being on it for the rest of your life
-We don’t really know the long term side effects but in general, going on gear has ramifications
-Think how you’d feel to be just off of the podium at a big race knowing the guy that beat you was juicing. I understand the desire to beat other guys but a hollow victory cheats you just as much. Of course if you’re a complete psychopath then #3 does not apply
Take the high road dude, we don’t need more losers in this world.
I think it sucks that people with really low levels can’t legally race in sanctioned events if they are getting treatment, but you can’t level the playing field by allowing people to bring their levels up to “normal” without massive abuse.
UCI tried to do something like that with hematocrit levels by limiting levels to 50%. So, in pro cycling, everyone was doping to a point that ensured they would be as close to 50 as possible without exceeding it if they were tested. You can’t level the playing field my trying to make everyone the same through drugs, it just doesn’t work that way. If I need to compete against someone with higher levels of T or better V02 max, that’s the reality since everyone is different. If I’ve got poor genetics or a T deficiency, I’ll never be an elite cyclist, them’s the breaks.
To try to level the playing field with testosterone, you’d have to start testing levels rather than the test for presence of synthetic testosterone. I assume that would allow people to use T in training (a huge benefit) and just back off for races so their level wouldn’t be that high. They might still have T in their system, but they’d still be within “normal” for a potential race-day test.
As far as guys not on the podium being able to dope, I think you’d need to go beyond that and create an official “non-competitive” category for people who use PED’s for medical or other reasons. A top 10 in a big national event can be more competitive then a win or podium at a local race. For some, a top 10 in a local race is a huge goal that is very important. I can understand that people may not want to advertise potential medical issues by entering a “special” category, but that’s better than the alternative of cheating and risk getting caught and carrying the doper stigma for life.
Honestly, the amount of misinformation and bro science on TRT in this forum and on the podcast is astonishing. As a non-competitive cyclist whose only “competition” is my previous PR, I may decide to throw myself under the bus and put together a lengthy post about the flawed logic that tends to permeate these discussions.
Without getting too far out on a limb in this thread, let me just leave you with 3 truths about this subject:
You guys who think that an average rider who goes on TRT is going to take your podium spot really need to find another boogieman to worry about. TRT will NOT turn an average rider into a podium contender any more than a new aero road bike will.
TRT, practiced properly, does NOT have the same effects that people associate with “cycling” steroids. For example, the increase in hematocrit that comes with injecting testosterone is transient and dosage dependant. If hematocrit DOES increase past 52%, any qualified physician will have you donate blood to bring it down below 50%. My hematocrit initially spiked to 52% after approx. 6 months on TRT, but has since returned to pre-TRT level of 48%
Rules are rules. If you’re going to go the TRT route, you’ve excluded yourself from any competition that forbids it. TRT allows me to stay healthy and injury free while doing an activity that I enjoy, riding a bike. I made the conscious decision that my health and wellbeing are more important to me than pursuing a podium, but that decision is different for everyone and your mileage may vary.
What are the side effects of low T and how do they effect your everyday lifestyle?
We are becoming so analytical that I do think this subject needs to be headed off when it comes to competition. Everybody gets blood tested and if a number is lower than a pro tour grand champion, all of a sudden something is wrong. I don’t mean to throw all TRT folks in that bucket. I’m sure there might be health reasons for it. That’s an area I need to learn more about. I know they do testing at high level events, but I think the biggest issue for me is at smaller events where nobody tests.
I currently around 4.3w/kg (I’ll use that value although I feel this forum puts way too much into w/kg) and I haven’t raced. My last routine blood tests showed 42% hematocrit. Does this mean I need to start taking something to get closer to 50%? I have never tested T levels and I really don’t care what they are as I’m 36 yrs old and understand there are side effects of aging and I’m ok with that. I’m really interested to learn more about life threatening side effects of low T.
Isn’t synthetic testosterone THE cycling steroid of choice for endurance events? I’m sure there are people using other stuff, but my understanding is that T is (or at least was) one of the most common PED’s at the pro and amateur level
I agree that T isn’t going to turn a middling rider into a contender. That’s not the point. It is certainly going to improve someone’s performance illegally. I personally don’t care if somebody is taking T for real medical reasons if they are not competitive and they are OK with the very small risk of getting caught.
If I had significant health issues and required TRT to lead a “normal” life, I wouldn’t want to stop riding my bike and I’d probably keep entering events and take my chances. That said, I wouldn’t feel right if I was competitive in those events and I don’t think I’d do any sanctioned events, probably just stick to the non-USAC stuff.
The big problem to me is that there is no “black and white” here, it’s all grey area. I am OK with someone rolling in 50th who might be taking T. I’m certainly OK with it if they are taking it to address serious health issues. On the flip side, I don’t think anyone’s OK with someone who started with normal levels for their age and takes T just to be stronger/faster and is anywhere near the front of the race.
If some 50+ guy wants to take T so he can train like a 30 year old again, that’s his choice, but he should lose the right to compete with clean racers at that point.
It’s worth noting that there is no “serious health issue” requiring testosterone replacement for a large percentage of those taking it. It’s most often prescribed for symptoms of depressed mood and decreased libido in patients with no other discernible cause of low testosterone levels other than age. It is not fda approved for this purpose and its benefits are limited to symptom improvement, and its controversial if it really does that. It does improve athletic performance and raise hemoglobin. It is doping for this reason.
Personally, at about 30 I noticed increased joint pain and an inability to train (I was a runner at the time) like I was only a few years early. Even 20-30 miles a week resulted in a string of chronic injuries.
Looking back, there were other symptoms too but that’s what got me to the doctor to look into it. Interestingly a lot of the benefits of testosterone replacement actually stem from the increase in estrogen that accompanies the increase in testosterone. Increased bone density, improved lipid profile, joint health, etc. all have more to do with getting your estrogen in range than the testosterone.
I can tell you this: I could take all the testosterone in the pharmacy and I’ll never reach where you are now at 4.3 W/kg. I’ve been training hard and consistently for over two years and only recently cracked 3.0.
Sorry, my post wasn’t clear enough. “Cycling” in the context I intended would mean using steroids in cycles like bodybuilders or those trying to maximize performance would. Going on and off, then back on testosterone allows a user (abuser) to go FAR beyond physiological levels.
The dose makes the poison and TRT is no different. Sadly there are a ton of docs more than happy to overprescribe.
Agreed. It’s a quality of life drug and the research on its safety and effectiveness is evolving all the time. I can say that, for me, once I had the dosage dialed in it’s improved many aspects of my daily life.
Additionally, as I mentioned in my original post, competing while on any form of hormone replacement is cheating… plain and simple. I just think there are a lot of clean athletes that find it far easier to tell themselves that riders only beat them because they’re doping instead of entertaining the possibility that they got outworked.
In order to to participate in USA Cycling events, you have to abide by the rules regarding PEDs. If you have a medical reason that requires a banned substance, there is a process for exceptions. Not in a million years would “my non-medically certified trainer said it’s good for endurance and strength” be a good enough reason for a TUE. For those who do not compete and want to use it because you want to use it, well, you’re like the body builders who get jacked on steroids.
Um, no… The blood testosterone levels achieved via a properly administered TRT program are roughly 25-30% of what your “body builder jacked on steroids” would see on a cycle. But, I mean… if makes it easier for you to rationalize your black and white view of the topic, so be it.
Frankly, yours is the opinion that mystifies me the most. It’s not enough for you to (rightly) expect the rules to be upheld, you have to go out of your way to look down your nose and denigrate other riders who AREN’T EVEN COMPETING.
I do agree with you all that OP should stay away from the T and get a new trainer.
However, I think the topic should get a new analysis by the powers that be. The whole system is pretty much outdated and much of the philosophies and rules regarding hormones is antiquated. We live in a world where medical science advances quickly. People who have worn out joints, can get joints replaced. People get new hearts and lungs and kidneys. Tendons and ligaments can be repaired, some with cadaveric ligaments. At the moment, most of those people are not able to perform athletically at a high level, but what if they do in a few decades? We have people with leg amputations who can run like the gazelles. They are allowed to compete albeit in a different category.
Yet throughout all this the endocrine system has remained taboo. Physicians are finding new deficiencies of the endocrine systems all the time with the aging population. For those of you with tin tin foil hats on, remember that overtraining syndrome is an endocrine problem. And there is a lot that is unknown and gray.
-The normal level of testosterone in a 25 year old is far higher than a 50 year old. Currently testing a 50 year old will check his levels to people his age. But what if he wants to have the same levels as a 30 year old? Some studies show many benefits to this with very low long term consequences.
-what about athletes who get offseason surgery who could improve their recovery time to normal by months with the help of HGH and Testosterone? Why is chemotherapy and antibiotics ok for healing but not hormones?
I really think that races, they need to have testing excluded division. You will not be tested, you can do the race and try to beat any personal goals you want, but can’t qualify for awards and podiums.
Btw, I can already envision a future where genetic modification becomes a hugely debated issue. That is doping at the highest level and it’s untestable since the person created to be a super athlete will not be taking anything exogenously. Furthermore, ethics of treatment are at play. Other than creating or not of a genetically modified human, what will be the ethics of the world towards those people? After all, they are living beings and did not choose to be genetically modified. But I digress.
If it’s on this list it’s banned. That’s as black and white as possible. No amount of “science” on a forum populated largely by amateur cyclists is going to change that. If you enter a competitive event you abide by the rules. If you don’t want to abide by the rules, think you are exempt from the rules, or disagree with the rules, again it’s black and white. Stay away from the event.
Your comparison with joint replacements is quite apt to illustrate why most people shouldn’t take hormones: an artificial joint is not implanted to improve performance, but to restore basic functions (without pain, that is). And they are less durable than what humans are born with. Of course, if there is a medical indication for taking hormones, then you should follow your doctor’s advice. But you may no longer be able to race.
Increasing performance is not a reason to do surgeries. Ditto when it comes to testosterone and other performance-enhancing drugs: perhaps your body can’t handle the training stress any longer, and you should accept it and reduce your training load.
The reason why doping is banned is quite simple: you enter into an arms race of dopes the most, at the expense of the athletes’s health. A little testosterone might not hurt you, but once you compete on these grounds, safe limits are bound to go by the wayside. For example, there are many former Eastern European athletes who were being lied to and now have to live with the long-term damage. Especially for amateurs without access to a specialist (but perhaps some personal trainer in the gym) are exposed to significant risks. Doping may put some athletes before a difficult choice: either you accept not being able to compete for the win or you are forced to assume the risks.
And yes, this can become a nuisance for pro athletes: my dad’s godson was a professional hockey player, and even a common cold was a problem, because common cold medicines could have had him test positive. He couldn’t just go to a random doctor and ask for a prescription.
It’s this philosophy that is baffling to me. It’s called getting older. You guys that are trying to justify this are going down the wrong path and need to deal with aging as a natural process. Take good look in the mirror and accept the reality.
If their is a supported medical reason for taking testosterone then take it. But as in the OP’s situation with normal blood levels for his/her age supplementing with synthetic testosterone or those who want to not age is slightly psychotic IMO.
Seconded.
Plus, for non-professionals this is just a hobby, and you shouldn’t forget other parts of life that get short-shrifted, starting with your own health. One of the reasons my wife supports my hobby are the health benefits. I am as fit as I have ever been, and one of the important lessons I feel I have learnt was to listen to the signals my body sends and take them seriously. Most importantly when it is time to rest and to accept my limits.
Right now joint replacement is not that good. But what happens when it becomes better? Remember that a prosthesis for an amputation used to be a stick. Then came that dude that killed his girlfriend. (Can’t remember his name) he had that springy flexible stuff that allowed him to run fast.
Things improve, even joints. There will come a day when artificial joints may not only be as good as a native one but better. The Eastern European athletes was 40-50 years ago. Things have come a long way since then. I can cite many things that were done horribly decades ago.
The rules change, maybe not as fast as the technological advancements but in the end they will change or new race classes will pop up.
But in the here and now, athletes should adhere to the rules in place.