Extend time how far? Yesterday I did 1x60min at 95%, RPE about 8. My current thinking is I should keep wattage the same and add like 10min a week, out to 1x90min.
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Right question to be asking yourself. In what way does another 30mins at 95% benefit you? How does it help your goals/ events? How many weeks will it take to get you to that point? At what cost to other areas things you could be working on? Etc.
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iāve done 1x90 @ 90% in my last sweet spot block
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Iām trying to make my own SST progression. So far this season, Iāve done 4 weeks of 14-15hrs pure Z2, followed by 4 weeks of 12-13hrs of <1 long tempo + 1 short SS intervals + Z2 filler>.
This is my second season training on the bike, and Iāve already had good gains from just riding Z2 for 4+hrs (~70% avg power, with about 2-5min of break time).
For this SST block, Iām planning on doing 1 long SST (did a 1 hr @90% so far), 1 SST interval workout, and Z2 filler to get the volume to 11-12hrs. Iām not sure how I should plan the interval SST workout. I was thinking of finding the level of the long SST workout in the TR library, and finding an interval workout with a similar level (something like 4 * 15 @94% or so). Is this a good strategy? I plan on progressing the long SST to 1.5hrs at 90-92%, and the intervals to 4 * 20 at 95% or so.
Iāve also seen a bunch of discussions around using HR to guide the SST workout, but Iāve found that to not be very useful. Depending on whether Iām climbing or doing a fast pace on flats, on the weather, and on the time of the day, I can see a HR variation of anywhere between 170 to 185 bpm (my max is 205bpm), which renders HR usage moot to some extent. I have however focused on breathing and general muscular fatigue feeling, and with long SST efforts, Iāve noticed I donāt breathe hard as such, and I have enough left in tank to keep going for longer. I wonder if other people relate to this?
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Cool!
As you start to progress into more intensity at this level of volume, I would suggest dialing your endurance pace back a bit. More like 60% (or less) of FTP. What was sustainable when all you were doing was endurance or some shorter intervals you will find causes too much fatigue and jeopardizes the whole thing when you start progressing interval durations.
Just stick to 90% and progress the time in zone. Donāt worry as much about the overall structure. 20 min intervals, minimum. Do some long single block sets as you feel like it, I wouldnāt worry about programming them.
As Iāve mentioned a few times before, once you get up into that 75-90min TiZ area, cut back to 1x SST per week and instead do a tempo progression in parallel. Aim for 80-85% and start at 45 straight minutes, work out to a 2hr workout with like 1:45 at 80% or so. TR has those workouts (Gibraltar, Phoenix, etc. IIRC).
Assuming you have a proper FTP, I think youāre going to find your plan falls apart pretty quickly working up to 1x90 at 90-92% + 4x20 at 95% in a week. Thatās just way too much IMO.
Yeah, no way. Iāve seen some people that use HR as like an upper bound to some types of work, but itās just so variable that I donāt see the utility in using HR that much.
The only time I really look at HR in situ as a decision point is in my endurance riding. If itās going nuts high, I back off.
As always, YMMV.
This is just way too much work to be sustainable in any quality way, IMO.
A SST progression is best done by extending total time in zone using intervals of reasonable length, rather than lifting power. I usually work people up to doing 20-30min intervals for a total of 60-120min depending on the athlete.
I would reduce the intensity of your recovery intervals. Just spin your legs, no % of FTP.
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Thanks for your thoughts, they are helpful.
Iām a little confused as to how this would help me. In my last block, I was focusing on longer tempo progression, and I got to doing 2hr@85%. That gives me two thoughts:
- Is there any benefit to keep doing such tempo work?
- If I do a long SST and a long tempo in the same week, it would seem very mentally fatiguing to me (I suppose it could be a little physically fatiguing as well to hit such long durations).
I suppose I could re-calibrate stuff a little, and bump my FTP a few watts, and start with a lower level SS progression. I havenāt FTP tested in a while, but I think Iām within 10 watts of what it would be.
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The point was less about what you could do vs. what you should do. Just that Iāve found with multiple athletes and myself that pushing 2x SST gets to be too much when you get into 75-90 minute TiZ sessions. There are people out there that can handle it. I have one guy who can/did handle two very long sessions like that over the course of 10 day periods. For most, Iād shy away from doing 2x long SST per week in favor of 1x long SST and 1x longer sustained tempo.
If youāve already done 2hrs at 85%, I would submit that you could probably forgo the SST progression altogether and work VO2max or go straight to work at FTP if you believe you still have room to grow under your current aerobic ceiling. You kinda already did a sweet spot progression. 
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Thanks. Yeah, I see your point.
I suppose I still have to work to 1.5hrs at 90%. I just did 1hr at 90% today, so thereās room to go.
Another reason for not wanting to go to threshold stuff just yet is I see right now as an opportunity to hit some local climbs (most that would take me ~30 min at 95% FTP) and do them just for fun (and get my PRs!)
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Thank you for your opinion or adviceā¦
I will reduce the SweetSpot work to only 1x per week (one long SS interval 60-90min), and the next day I will replace the SS training with an endurance ride 120min @85% FTP.
Could you fit some short Vo2 max intervals into this endurance ride?
But what if the main event (La Marmotte) requires to do about 4.5 hours of Tempo / low SS (80-85%) during a 7 hour ride? What should I do then? Train to extend that TIZ SS time? Or more and longer tempo rides ?
Last Saturday I road for 3 hours with about 2:10 in Tempo zone. HR stayed pretty flat (80% of max) the entire time and legs felt the same after the first 45 min as well as at the 2 hour mark. The event is still far away. But Iām not sure how to proceed from here on. Maintaining Z2 Volume and extending tempo / ss or focus on threshold workā¦ Or maybe something else ?
This is my recent training history: (- TrainerRoad)
Why?
The answer is āyesā.
You donāt have to replicate your goal event in training. But for ultra- type events like that, I do try to push beyond the ānormalā 90 minutes I use for Cat 3/4 type road racers out to 2 hours at 90%, maybe longer at tempo. I donāt see much need to go beyond 2 hours at 90%. Thatās a big load, and if you can do that, you can handle 4:00 at 80% in a single day, assuming youāve got the endurance volume behind it
Events like Leadville have similar demands, and frankly I think those kinds of events are just as much about pacing, gearing, and nutrition as they are fitness and being able to ride at XX% of FTP for YYY amount of time in training. Obviously do the work, but if gearing, nutrition, and especially pacing are off, youāre gonna have a bad day anyway you slice it.
For these types of ultra events, depending on the timeline, a āreverseā periodization strategy makes some senseā¦ where you train VO2max early, raise FTP, and then progress longer times at sub-threshold levels as you ārace specificā training closer to the event. The key being plenty of endurance volume all along the way.
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Thanks for the insights Kurt! Very appreciated!
You talk about 2 hours at 90%. Should I aim for a single interval of that duration? Or is 2x1 hour sufficient enough? And is it a good idea to incorporate these efforts into a long ride or is a single focus session ābetterā.
Still have 144 days till the event, so I have enough time to build that aerobic engine to the max 
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Just to brighten up the monotony of long training
But I can see itās not a good ideaā¦ Maybe Iāll just include some low cadence intervals instead
I would say that 3x40 is a good way to get 2h of sweet spot TiZ. Then you can add some endurance riding at the end.
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I find it mentally easier to start with long interval and finish with shorter. Last 2hr sweet spot workout I did 90min+30min. I do threshold intervals in similar way.
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I, too, have found that doing more than one long sweetspot workout per week starts being too much when I go over ~90min TiZ per workout. After the initial progression from 30min ā 90min I switch from two sweetspot and one tempo workout per week to:
- one āpureā sweetspot workout, 60-90 minutes of TiZ
- one āsweetspot plusā workout, which is some kind of over-under type work. This is shorter and more intense than the main sweetspot workout mentioned above and meant to build gradually towards harder threshold and Vo2 work.
- one long tempo workout at around 80% of FTP.
So far so good. Definately more improvement than last year with less overall fatigue.
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So I am clear here for others reading: I DONāT recommend or prescribe 2hrs at 90% to most people! For higher category racers or ultra endurance types who have higher goals, yes.
With respect to how you do it, it honestly doesnāt matter that much. I would try to do it all in a block of time, like a 4x30/5 if I were doing it on a trainer, but it is totally viable to do it as part of a longer ride where you do periodic LONG bouts of SST. So that could be a loop where you have a few long climbs, or a ride where there is one long climb you do three or four times and just recover on the descent.
TiZ is most important. How you get there matters less; caveats with I would keep things over 20 min intervals at minimum.
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Yeah, VO2max work isnāt something you do to break up monotony. 
Cadence manipulation is a good idea.
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Is there any point progressing time at 95% instead of 90%? This base season I wasnāt feeling like progressing to 2 hours of sweet spot so I did progression to 1 hour at 95%. Once a week while the other intensity session being over-unders.
Are the gains similar?