Yes, vo2 max block is great but the gains are usually way better if your tte is long. And tte is long because of volume and all aerobic training. Not to mention that with lot of volume you will tolerate vo2 max better and be able to do more work. So vo2 max block itself will brin gains but they will be more substantial with all tte work beforehand.
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That makes sense. I guess low SST would be a āreplacementā for shortening long z2 endurance rides, which I agree is more tempo. Below 95% is FTP for me as well.
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i like to settle on 90%,and with it being consistent itās easier to spot any trends like improving efficiency and whatever. However this past block Iāve been less strict with this, partially due to not using erg and going with what feels good in the 280ish region and partially because I donāt know for certain what my ftp is at the moment, so while something like this on paper is 93% based on my set ftp of 305, it could be slightly lower if my ftp is 310. Gonna get a better idea tomorrow
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My normal progression for me and my athletes is:
TTE extension at SST/Tempo ā VO2max ā Threshold work
If youāre doing true FTP work year round, a lot of people wonāt love doing that month after month after month. SST is training essentially the same thing, at higher TiZ and it feels quite a bit more managable, so itās better for base periods IMO. I also use tempo quite a bit, usually in 30 min block doses.
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A tempo/SST progression is a key part of base training, IMO. Get volume up with endurance riding first, then tempo/SST progression into VO2max. People get way to wrapped up in dogmatic definitions of base/build, etc.
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Is there a problem doing threshold and SS during the same block? Thatās what Iām currently doing, Iām
Basically following the blueprint of TRs master plans but choosing my own progression. This was I can get longer intervals and more TIZ than what they offer.
Before starting the TR masters base plan, I had 3 months of mostly endurance and a couple intervals a week. The weeks were usually 2 āhard daysā a mix of tempo, SS or threshold. Which was their offering of a ābaseā plan.
Iām mainly wondering am I doing too much now for an event in March? 
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Thanks for your input! And I get what you say. And at my 8-10hr/wks I get about 120-180min at tempo/sweetspot TiZ.
My question was more: is it not a bit early to include Treshold in that progression as well, as mentioned by @jarsson .
The quesion is then - to early for what? If you can recover from harder workouts they are more beneficial - simple as that. You have two sliders to manipulate - volume and intensity and you have to find balance between those two.
For example with 6h/wk I have seen big gains with 3x threshold per week but with volume around 10h I had a problem with nutrition and recovery, lowered to 2x week but overall stimulus was enough to provide more gains (if I had to choose I always will choose volume, but then there is a thing called lifeā¦). For me 2x week and rest is z2 is good, sustaniable amount that does not require rest weeks in traditional meaning.
In my opinion, everything that builds aerobic engine is good to do all year round. And then you have specificity that you can introduce closer to events or mainipulating density of workouts to make the ābuildā push.
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Thanks for the insight. I will keep it at tempo/SS for now, I feel like Iām still improving. And Iām a bit anxious for burn-out or illness with two small kids at home. But I do hear what youāre saying and it makes sense.
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This. If you are improving, do what works for you and require the least amount of work with eliciting improvements.
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Thank you guys for the advice, I really do appreciate it.
Looking to get back into structured training over the winter for the first time in two years & playing around with something like this versus following Jem Arnolds āSustainable Trainingā outline.
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Not really a problem, per se, itās just a lot easier to get more time in that threshold zone doing it at sweet spot, and thatās what I would aim for during base, personally. Is it too early if youāre aiming for March? Depends on your overall periodization. If youāre planning to push threshold intervals from now until March, then yeah, too early IMO.
Depends on the goal timeline. For me, Iām aiming for first peak in late March/early April, so yeah, a little early IMO.
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My first event is in late April, so I had a similar concern with doing threshold work right now. In the past, Iāve found trying to squeeze in too much threshold work can really wipe me out.
I just completed 3x30 @ 90% over the weekend and HR/RPE seemed right for sweetspot (i.e. hard but could have done another 20-30 minute interval and HR steady around 151 BPM with LTHR of 162BPM). Iām usually limited to ~75 min trainer sessions during the week but can consistently get in 2-2.5 hrs on both Sat/Sun (averaging 10-12 hrs per week).
Any tips on where to go from here? Itās been a while since Iāve done threshold intervals. Is it worth doing 1 threshold workout during the week to build out TTE around 100% and keep stretching SS on the weekend (filling the rest with Z2)? Maybe VO2 instead during the week?
Thanks!!
How about doing a threshold/TTE test, seeing what your threshold is, and if itās higher, start an SST progression at a higher power out to 90min or so? I donāt know if you were working based on power (i.e. 90% of FTP) or just running by HR/RPE for these sets, so that might change my answer.
If your HR is that low and steady during a 3x30, odds are pretty good you were closer to tempo, and that would indicate to me that you might have achieved an FTP bump. Not uncommon especially early in a base period like this.
Squeeze gains out of the TTE extension as you can, then hit VO2 max. Think of proper threshold training more as ārace prepā or ābuildā than ābaseā, IMO.
Another option that I do with older guys and riders totally new to structure is a SST TTE extension for one workout, then MAP intervals for the other, and the rest endurance. That hybrid works well for older masters, and I have one guy in his 20s who has never done consistent structure but has gotten solid gains off of that so far. Weāre rolling with that till it stops working. Knowing a little about your background, might not be ideal for you. If youāve been structured for a while, Iād stick with block periodization.
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If anyone is interested, hereās how I kicked off my next couple months of training.
Sprint Phase (2 weeks):
- 2x sprint workouts per week (Tuesday & Friday)
- 1x Strength Training Session per week
- The rest is filled in with endurance and/or tempo rides, fun stuff on the MTB, no structure.
Followed immediately by a short 2-week max aerobic phaseā¦the goal here is to progress TiZ conservatively, so I have opted to do the same workout twice within the week. This isnāt set in stone, so if I feel good on that second workout I can adjust.
Max Aerobic Phase 1 (2 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
- 2x repeating max aerobic workouts per week (Tuesday & Friday)
- 1x Strength Training Session per week
- The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides erring on the side of less is more given the intensity.
After an adaptation week Iāll go back into another 2 weeks of max aerobic, pushing TiZ outā¦
Max Aerobic Phase 2 (2 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
- 2x repeating max aerobic workouts per week (Tuesday & Friday)
- 1x Strength Training Session per week
- The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides erring on the side of less is more given the intensity.
After an adaptation week Iāll go back into another block, this time focusing on extensive threshold.
Extensive Threshold Phase 1 (3 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
- 2x SS workouts per week (Tuesday & Friday)
- 1x Strength Training Session per week
- The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides, and nordic skiing. Will adapt weeks as needed.
After an adaptation week Iāll jump into another 4 week extensive phase with a little different structure incorporation some over/unders along with pushing TiZ out.
Extensive Threshold Phase 2 (3 working weeks, 1 adaptation week):
- 1x SS workout per week (Tuesday)
- 1x O/U workout per week (Friday)
- 1x Strength Training Session per week
- The rest is filled in with recovery and endurance rides, and nordic skiing. Will adapt weeks as needed.
This will bring me into mid-March or right about the time good outdoor riding happens in my neck of the woods. I did something similar coming into 2021 and had some great results that season. I know that this looks like a lot, but Iām willing to make changes along the way.
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Why the MAP before the extensive work?
A couple of reasons. Firstly, I havenāt done any sustained work in a long time and I want to see if 4-7 min intervals will help me prepare for that and secondly, I havenāt done it this way before and Iām curious to see how it goes.
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I was also wondering. If I do vo2 max without sst/threshold and lot of z2 I cannot even finish 4x4. I personally need a lot of riding before vo2 to properly do the workours and see some benefits.
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Never been a fan of the prepartory VO2max block longer than maybe 2 weeks. Dean Golich used to give a series of VO2 work at the start of base, but it was 2x workouts back to back for 2 weeks as a primer to Z2 work. Then it was extensive work, then full-blown VO2max training.
Iāve done that protocol before and itās pretty good for getting you going, but itās not really prep for sustained work. Thatās always going to suck the first workout or two. 
Yeah doing VO2s āoff the couchā or prior to any kind of intensity is fāing brutal. Not my preference having done it both ways.
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