What is double application?
I think itās 2x the application rate of his standard test protocol. IIRC, For dry flat road conditions, his standard application period is 400km. And lower for more aggressive conditions.
1 Like
Oh so maybe something like relaxing q 200k vs āstandardā 400k or something like that? That would make perfect sense.
Per ZFC:
āLubricant application intervals ā Lubricants will be applied strictly as per manufacturer instructions. Re lube intervals will be every 400km on Flat simulation intervals, and 200km on hill simulation intervals UNLESS this rate of re-lubrication would be detrimental according to manufacturer instructions with regards to if re lubing too frequently risks gathering too high a level of contamination. If an adjustment to re lube intervals vs base levels is made this will be noted accordingly in test.
During contamination blocks, the rate of re lubrication is doubled ā every 200km of flat simulation and 100km hill simulation ā as it would be normal behaviour that riders re lubricate more often if riding in harsh conditions, as well as giving lubricants more of chance to āclean as they lubeā etc. Again this will be adjusted if manufacturer instructions are clear that this rate would be detrimental and noted accordingly.ā
1 Like
I knocked 160 road miles with the hot wax, no issues and could do more miles
1 Like
Hereās an update on my few months now using Silca Hot Melt Wax and SS lube.
- Performance when freshly hot waxed
- Fantastic. Quiet. Clean. This is what people rave about when they use hot wax.
- For reference, I ride in mainly dry dusty conditions.
- Longevity of Hot Wax
- The Hot Melt was lasts about 10 hrs on my gravel bike (Shimano 11 speed GRX) but only about 5 hrs on my MTB (SRAM Eagle 12 speed) before the chain starts making noise in the big cassette cog - a kind of creaking or grinding - not bad, but the first sign of noise from the drivetrain
- The big cassette cog is where the chain is at its most extreme angle, so this is the earliest warning that the lube is starting to run out.
- I can ride longer than the 5-10 hours, but the drivetrain makes progressively more noise and in smaller cassette cogs
- Refresh lubes between hot waxing with SS drip lube
- This works well, and as noted above, is necessary after 5-10 hours on MTB and Gravel bike to restore the drivetrain to āsilentā operation.
- I find the longevity of the SS relube to be less than hot wax, somewhere in the 3-6 hour range depending on how much I put on.
- Relubing mid ride
- Iāve only done this once - on my gravel bike on a long ride that I started when the waxed drivetrain was at its 8 hr point. I should have expected what was going to happen, as the hot melt max was approaching its 10 hr threshold before I started the ride. A few hours into the ride, I started noticing the creaking when the chain was in the big cassette cog. I brushed off surface dust, and relubed with Squirt lube. I used Squirt instead of SS drip as itās cheaper. It worked great, and restored the drivetrain to silent operation - and was good for another 4 hours. Compared to my friend who relubed mid-ride with Rock and Roll Gold, my drivetrain stayed more silent. This is because the wax lube doesnāt hold dirt and dust (the Squirt dried very quickly after application).
- Overall impression
- Generally good. I have no plans to switch back to oil based lubes.
- Iām disappointed in the longevity of the hot melt performance on my MTB. I think itās due to the tighter tolerances of the SRAM chain not allowing the wax to penetrate.
- ETA - it could also be because I spend a lot of time climbing in the big cassette cogs, which puts more stress on the chain/lube due to cross chaining.
- If I just had a MTB, I donāt think Iād go to the trouble of the hot melt (Iād use drip wax). But since Iām doing it anyway for my gravel bike, itās easy to treat 2 chains at once.
2 Likes
There have definitely been some points made about how wax will have a harder time penetrating the SRAM chains and their tighter tolerances. Iād expect hot melt to be better at this since itās less viscous than SS, but not ideal. Iāve also read that waxing the newer AXS chains can cause shifting issues because it closes up whatever little tolerances it has.
Iām still using R&R Gold on my Eagle X01 chain and SS drip on the Dura Ace road chain. I tend to wash the MTB often (usually after each ride) so I end up re-applying RRG typically after every wash as well
The Eagle X01 has ridiculous lifespan anyway and Iām not concerned with lifespan or watt savings there and feel like RRG is smooth enough even while fully cross chained, and seeing as I reapply pretty much after every ride anyway I donāt think wax would be worth it there
1 Like
I lived in New Mexico for the last couple of years so I know dry and dusty. I never found a perfect solution for my gravel bike. Every ride during certain times per year, the chain would be coated with dust. I would hose it off after every ride and do the Rock and Roll gold routine. It worked ok. I never tried wax on my gravel bike because I didnāt have the facilities to do frequent chain swaps.
Iām using Smoove (drip on wax) on my road bike. With exceptional pre-cleaning of the chain and exception application, Iāve seen amazing longevity. Iāve got around 7k miles on the current chain and I have yet to reach the first (.5mm) wear mark on my Park chain checker. Iām going to swap the chain soon just because itās been so many miles. Based on the Park chain checker I could just clean and re-Smoove the chain.
Iām the same. I like the wax because itās easier to keep clean - I can just use water and a brush for the entire bike.
When I used oil-based lubes, the drivetrain required itās own cleaning routine using water+dish soap, then a water rinse.
1 Like
Be careful with soaking a chain in ge-greaser for prolonged periods. ZFC advises against this and says it can weaken the chain.
Iāve been using this drip lube for a few months now and think itās great. I run a SRAM Red group set and tried the hot melt wax. I didnāt like how it filled the pin holes in the chain and just how much wax flaked off after the first use. I also live in an apartment and it is a messy job in the kitchen. So went back to using the drip lube. Top ups on bike are required every 10hrs Iād say.
I take the chain off every 50hrs or so and giving it the full clean when I am doing a deep clean of my bike. 2x Mineral spirits, 1x denatured alcohol, air dry. Something I noticed is how quickly the chain cleans when using wax. The spirits are clear at the second wash. The denatured alcohol is to remove the last of the residue.
Something new I tried is drip waxing the chain off the bike at this point. I put some clear food wrap on the counter, put the chain down in a big arc to open up the plates and apply the wax. I run my finger along it to spin the rollers and work the wax in. Flip the chain, spin the rollers and let dry over night. Reinstall. I figure I can really open the plates and get more wax in. A bit pedantic perhaps but its easy and gives a very clean result on the bike; far less wax flaking and waxy cassette, jockey wheels and chainrings.
I wouldnāt go back to oil based lubes now. The shifting is noticeably smoother/faster, the drivetrain is far more quiet and the frequency or reapplication is lower. Also when washing the bike I donāt need to use harsh chemical cleaners on the chain getting it everywhere else on the bike/in bearings.
3 Likes
Iāve personally tracked my sound to the roller/pin interface, best as I can tell. When I do a fresh treat of SS, the roller has little play because there is wax between the two taking up space and acting as a cushion. The more I ride and the more wax is pushed out of the pin/roller area and the more loosely the roller moves, and the noise increases.
I donāt really agree with the whole surface oil thing, because if that was true then a freshly waxed chain with the rollers wiped clean on the outside would be loud.
1 Like
post_deleted
Mine will usually do 6-8 hours before the noise picks up to the point where I want it quieter. Note I am VERY picky and particular with my gear, the noise I get is a clacking type of sound where I hear each roller against the big chainring, and Ultegra hollow
big rings are known to amplify this, it is NOT a dry squeaky unprotected chain sound. I am in a fairly humid climate. That said, when it gets louder it still spins very freely (when I used to use Rock n Roll GOLD after this amount of time if I spun the cranks backwards they wouldnāt spin nearly as long) and I could probably push it 2x longer. Iām using a Dura Ace chain which has more of the Sil-Tec coating which is said to be a poor surface for wax and DS2 to stick to so I imagine a lower end chain would actually perform BETTER with SS drip, at least in terms of application longevity
2 Likes
I just did 2 Ultegra 11spd chains with super secret dip.
One chain was brand new and one was a couple months old with lots of standard grease/road crud on it.
I did the standard mineral spirits/denatured alcohol to clean both chains. Note for anyone doing this I would also suggest cleaning your cassettes the same way. Then I dipped them for about 30 minutes or so shaking them a few times (I donāt think you need to dip them long, I was doing other things at the time so let them sit a bit). Also, I used a plastic tie on one end of the chain to make it easy to get out of the jar.
I used my fingers to squeegee the excess back into the jar and then hung them to dry over night over some paper towels.
I did a 3 hour outside ride today with the new chain. The drive chain was so quiet and even shifting (mechanical Ultegra) was so much smoother. I checked the chain/cassettes after the ride and they were still like new. The older chain will go on my trainer bike.
So, if you donāt want to deal with crock pots and hot wax I would go the dip route. The whole process was really hassle free and I didnāt need to buy any extra equipment. I am not going back to oil base lubes and I see no reason to mess with hot wax either.
4 Likes
Iāve been doing MSW hot wax for close to 2 years now. Itās so great to have super clean residue free drive train. For mountain biking in dry dusty conditions I get pretty much 4 rides in before I need to rotate to fresh chain. That probably averages between 10-12hrs of use.
Iām pretty excited to try this new Silca Secret Drip wax. Hopefully it will extend the time between when the chain needs to be removed and re-waxed completely. I wasnāt really worried about this previously as I use 4-5 chain stable for rotation and just wax them all at once after I put on my last clean chain. But I am worried about this now as XTR master links are completely sold out (or if you can find them big time price gouging). I donāt race so I feel more comfortable reusing the links multiple times but 5 is the limit. Iāve resorted to ordering backup YBN links just in case.
Iām thinking of getting a second slow cooker to simplify the waxing process. MSW suggests just tossing the training chain (which all my chains are since I donāt race) straight into the pot without all the stripping old wax and cleaning. Iād like to experiment with this. My thoughts are have one clean pot for new chains and one for dirty chains.
If I have a ācleanā chain needing a rewax, i plastic bag it with fresh wax in hot water sous vide style (medium rareā¦), then dump the wax onto the top of the slow cooker once the chain is hanging. I donāt get chains to last as ācleanā for long, unless they only stayed indoors. Having a second wax pot didnāt make sense for me, but it might for you.
1 Like
Either way at a minimum I think I would need a hot plate and or something to heat water and put the bag in. No way Iām bringing this stuff into my kitchen. I have a grip of MSW I need to go through before I can even try some Silca with the built in bag.
I sold my other half a long time ago with straight parafin wax, being food grade, for canning! Not so sure about the additives in fhe silca. When I strip and clean chains, i dry them in the ovenā¦So far staying out of trouble.
2 Likes
I did this for a while with just straight paraffin wax, and the wax gets dirty quite quickly, even when doing this mostly with chains used exclusively indoors. I now clean the chain by rinsing it with boiling water, and this keeps the wax much, much cleaner. If you decided to just rewax chains directly off the bike, you really do want to have a clean and a dirty crockpot, as the dirty will get quite dirty pretty quickly.
I rinse the chain with boiling water, then spray it off with isopropyl alcohol to displace the water, then put it into the wax. Any residual alcohol quickly boils off.
3 Likes