I also use several standing drills to help with my trainer use and comfort. But one of the reasons I added motion (in fact the driving one that lead me to make my first rocker) was the fact that standing on a rigid trainer setup is even more awkward than rigid while seated.
With the bike fixed, we have to adopt this odd shoulder & booty shimmy when standing on the bike vs what we get outside. It sure helps to relieve saddle pressure and changes muscular loading a bit like we get when outside, but that standing motion pattern on a fixed setup is not ideal.
Most people don’t stand as often as you or I do, so motion setups for standing aren’t necessarily THAT important. But I find that the more realistic motion makes me more likely to stand vs the odd fixed setup use, so it’s beneficial from that perspective since I do it more often.
Yup, I was able to see notable differences in peak saddle pressure between rigid and minimal motion in my old video. Even though I was using a rocker, the first minimal motion setup is similar to the foam block setups or others like them that aren’t even “rocker” in the pure sense.
Adding even minimal motion can lead to real improvement in saddle comfort at the very least. That is the most common benefit seen and felt by adding motion.
Thanks for the thorough response. The price tag on rocker plates is a bit steep. I recently watched a video about the lateral rocking and the guy mentioned your name. He was a big advocate for loose tension for more rocking. For exx he said Saris wasn’t great because it was very tight and maybe you couldn’t adjust it? What are your thoughts on that? Do you have any recommendations on rockers to look at for them?
Good point. I do use the same shoes but have changed them since I first experienced this issue. I was using road shoes and now switched to Mtb for more play. It somewhat mitigates the issue, but it hasn’t proven to be a solution
Are you willing to do any DIY or are you only interested in a finished solution?
What trainer do you have (since some options vary per trainer)?
Where are you located and have you checked the listings in my doc for sellers in your region?
I may be able to offer specific recommendations depending on where you are located & shopping.
As a guess, that is probably Eric Schlange of Zwift Insider. He and I have a long history of rockers and similar understanding and experience with respect to rocker setup for best motion control. In short, if people want the most “realistic” experience on a rocker plate, that means using a setup with minimal Leveling Spring Force. That is because we have minimal force when riding outside and using lower forces on rockers is the best approach with that in mind.
The mention of the Saris MP1 is for two reasons. First, their rocker is a fixed Leveling Spring Force that is not adjustable by the rider. Second, that fixed Leveling Spring Force is rather high. It offers firm support that is welcomed by many new rocker plate users, but that high force also prevents the best use of a rocker IMO. High leveling spring forces make standing efforts in particular more awkward and difficult (if not impossible) to achieve the proper Lean to Pedal timing.
So, the high force and non-adjustable nature of the Saris MP1 don’t sit well with me. Add in the exorbitant pricing they started with ($1200 USD) and still high pricing today ($950 USD) make it a terrible option IMO. I’ve seen people get them at nice discounts, and that is the only way I’d ever recommend that specific option.
I’m in New England. I would prefer to spend as $200-400 if that’s an option, but if there is a substantial quality difference then I would consider going higher. Not keen on DIY (saw your online stuff) as I don’t think I have the time. I guess I am just really interested in good adjustable lateral movement, fore-aft is less interesting. Idc about name brand as long as functionality is there
I have used one for a decent amount of time and it is great bang for buck. It comes with inflatables that are adjustable, but I ditched them entirely and relied on the rib curve for centering. It is loose in the middle and naturally increases leveling force the further the rocker & bike lean.
Ultimately, it’s slightly stiffer at the 5-7* angle than I personally like, but I am a very edge case user. I think the default curve with no inflatables is likely close to what may work well for you. Check out my pics and review here for more info. I am happy to dive deeper if you have more questions too.
I bought this and I like it. Good price for a manufactured option and gives side to side and fore aft. Does require user assembly but it’s really simple and he gives you everything you need.
Very doubtful. If it was tens of thousands of pounds and spinning at a higher rate, sure it would. A fifty pound flywheel? Sure the bearing feels it, but it’s so slight. Centrifugal force…
The magnitude of centrifugal force F on an object of [mass] m at the distance r from the origin of a frame of reference rotating with [angular velocity] ω is:
F = m ω2 r
With ω2 being ω squared.
Related: someone proclaimed that old saw about toilets ‘only’ flowing one direction in the northern hemisphere and opposite in the southern. I had a house with a toilet that rotated clockwise, and the other one rotated counterclockwise. They said I was delusional. At a party we had a bit later I showed him. DUH!! The mass of the water is so insignificant to the motion of the planet that it can flow anyway it wants. It’s just so insignificant as to be completely nonexistent. I was retelling that just this weekend. (Why do people still believe that?)
I appreciate the link again. I forget to add this to my Rocker doc before, but will get it done today.
But… Imagine my surprise as I dug in a bit to find this maker & seller is actually just 6 hours away in my home state I had no idea and should make a trip to connect with them now.
This is really good stuff and nice to find I could get into one for $150. I see that the big difference is the LifeLine is a full plate (spanning front to rear) whereas the Pod Lite only goes on the rear. Is there much difference there? Could I simply get a board the same height was the Pod Liite to stick under my front tire and be (nearly) just as well off?
Any recommendations for getting a good front wheel lockdown on a rocker? I have a custom full board (side to side only) rocker but everytime i race on sprint in a race on Zwift the front wheel always moves out of alignment. I have tried velcro straps but they dont seem to hold the wheel in place.
I’ve always been curious, but surely the argument about rockers and realistic muscle engagement doesn’t make much sense because the bike rocks in the exact opposite direction to riding it outside?
For starters, I and many others use proper lean timing & form on our rockers. I get great results from overall body use, power production and comfort from this correct rocking direction (bike leans away from side with foot down). That applies in the saddle as well as standing at all effort levels.
This type of use requires a very low leveling spring force (much like the minimal amount we get outside) AND active control of the handlebars by the rider (vs too many people that passively ride the bike as though it were still rigid). The two leading factors for opposite timing are people using leveling spring force that is too strong and/or passive control of the handlebars. This is all well addressed by Eric in his article.
Once you get the rocker leveling spring low enough, it’s just a matter of the rider actually using the leverage present in the handlebars to control the lean timing relative to their pedal timing. I and others wrote some guides to help people find this timing.
Opposite rocking direction is possible (bike leans towards side with foot down), but I still consider this better than rigid riding. The comfort aspect is huge for most users and can’t be ignored as a benefit regardless of the wrong lean timing.
With respect to the wrong lean timing and muscle engagement, it depends on a persons goals to some extent. Even with the wrong timing, a person is using more muscle activation when compared to a rigid setup. That is true seated as well as standing. So, if a person is just looking to be more “active” on the bike, even a rocker with wrong timing is an improvement compared to a fixed setup.
I have a more lengthy work in progress about wrong timing that is worth a look and expands on some of what I covered already.
Thanks. Currently, the trainer and front wheel has some heavy duty straps but they are a bit elasticated - the trainer doesnot move though. I didnt want to really go down the cable tie route but that may be the best way to get a decent lockdown.
If the front wheel is moving sideways, the trainer almost certainly must be twisting in those elastic straps. I personally prefer hard stops in the form of wood blocks or steel angle to restrain the trainer. Once that is done and the trainer can’t twist, the front never moves.
I use Voile straps instead of Velcro with my Velocity Rocker (https://velocityrockers.com) and a Tacx Neo 2t. I use two on each side in the back (one will do). Voile Straps Nylon Buckle — 12": Voile. I don’t use a strap in the front. I use an Elite Sterzo Smart I bought used. I don’t care about the steering, but it does allow the bars and front wheel to move a bit and I think it is more comfortable than being locked down. Even during out-of-saddle efforts, it has been pretty sturdy.
I had no idea and should make a trip to connect with them now.