Well after coming close last year, my FTP has reached 4.07 w/kg. Not too shabby for someone approaching 59. Likely peak this year as my A event is in just under 2 weeks.
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You need talent "good physiology: to get to 4w/kg as well as some youth. I have alll but given up and my aim is 3.5wkg or I would take a 250 watt FTP at 55 and 76kg.
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I think it was Coggan who said ~4w/kg is achievable by an average young male with decent training over multiple years. I’m going off memory on that and can’t remember the age span, but remember a long thread on slowtwitch about the topic many years ago and 4w/kg sticks out. I don’t know if that’s right or not (or how anyone would establish “average” potential), but it seems about right from what I see. I see lots of folks getting to 3.5w/kg on less than 10 hours of training per week and many of the guys training 15+ are pushing 4w/kg or more. At least for the 25-45 crowd. Probably some self selection there with good responders motivated to push more hours.
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I hit 3.99 w/kg a few weeks ago, so basically there. I don’t think I have any extraordinary genetics and a pretty short endurance training history. Here’s a few stats:
- 37 y/o
- Cycling since Feb 2024
- Averaged 10 hrs/wk in 2025
- Would estimate in 2024 I averaged around 6-8 hrs/wk with a few blocks that peaked around 10 hrs/wk
- Prior to 2024 I was a very casual runner since 2018. Generally around 300-500 miles/yr, but did have one 12 mo period just over 1000 miles according to Strava (seems high, but don’t care enough go dig in and verify).
My training is basically all polarized. I believed in polarized training for running and have carried through on the bike. I usually do a threshold workout, VO2 max workout, couple endurance workouts and a long endurance workout/ each week. Lately as I’ve prepped for unbound I’ve been cycling 5-6 days/wk but unless on specific race blocks it’s usually a bit less.
My best race performance so far was a 100 mile gravel race in April where I finished in 5:12, which I was pretty proud of. Being a newer rider, it’s taking work to get comfortable past the 3 hr mark. It’s my main focus now, but will just take time in the saddle.
Aside from a fractured scapula due to a race crash last November, I’d say that my training since I started early last year has been very consistent and pretty solid for a new rider.
Despite my lack of endurance background, I do have a very extensive weight training background for 20+ years, so I do carry a good amount of muscle that I’m sure helps my cycling.
Hitting 4.0 w/kg (although I’m .01 away) was a pretty big goal. I don’t have any type of hard goal now other than to keep doing what I’m doing and see how it goes. Keep with my current self coached training (I do TR workouts, but not a huge fan of their programs, so I self select). Main goal is just getting more comfortable for the 100 mile gravel races, and I’m sure with my training my FTP will continue to slowly rise.
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I’ve always struggled with fatigue resistance as well, what are you doing for long Z2 work?
I had made some custom workouts for myself focused on fatigue resistance/durability before I burnt out last summer (I didn’t get to the point of trying them as I burnt out during the race season). Hoping to maybe be up to working them into my program once my fitness allows for that amount of TSS again.
The gravel races in my area (for my speed) are generally ~4h30 in length, I didn’t do any with power so the TSS and Kj would be just estimated but based on this idea. Made workouts that looked like this to potentially help reduce my fading in these long races.
If I ever get up to the point I can do these the next steps would probably be to add a few SS intervals into these to stimulate the climbs as our gravel races are generally rolling with several of these thrown in along the way
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In my experience, there is no replacement for volume when it comes to building endurance/durability for long gravel races. But if time doesn’t allow for the volume, long sweet spot work is a great short cut and can get you pretty far. I built some decent durability years ago using the old TR high volume sweet spot plan that had me doing long sweet spot intervals 3-4 times a week. High volume in name only, it was really just a lot of sweet spot still squeezed into relatively low hours (a high percentage of time was at sweet spot). The biggest problem I see with that approach is that I found it a mental and physical beat down. And I love sweet spot work, but it was just too much. Like everything else, everyone responds differently. The only real sustainable approach I’ve found is putting in a bunch of hours on the bike over multiple years.
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Pretty basic stuff really. Like @grwoolf mentioned, there’s really no replacement for sheer volume. Going from 6-8 hrs/wk last year to 10+ this year has been really helpful. I think a LOT of progress can be made in a 10 hr week. Probably something like 4, 1.5 hr workouts (1 threshold, 1 vo2, 2 endurance) and then a 4 hr weekend long ride. Alternatively could cut to 1, 1.5 hr endurance and then do a 5.5 hr on the weekend. I am baffled at some of TR’s recommended programs for people that are targeting 100 mile races cap at like 2-3 hr ‘long’ rides on the weekend. Sure, for people who just want to finish, but there’s a LOT that goes on between a 3 hr ride to a 5 hr ride.
For scheduling reasons nearly all my rides are on the trainers. Usually 2-3 of my long rides each month are outside, but most stuff is inside.
A 1.5 hr endurance ride for me might be like, 5 min easy warm up, 20 minutes at 55% FTP, 40 mins at 70% FTP, 20 minutes at 55% FTP, 5 mins cool down. I do most of those rides as free rides. They’re often very similar to the TR endurance rides, but TR loves to do a 5 minute warm up, straight into like 70-75% effort, and I don’t care for that. Aside from the PL’s, there’s no downside in doing free rides.
One workout that I’ve started doing occasionally this spring (best to do on trainer), is incorporating my vo2 or threshold workouts into a long ride. Here’s an example of a 4 hr ride where at 1 hr in I did 6x2, and 3 hrs in I did 4x2. You can really pick any threshold or vo2 workout and just throw it into the long ride where you want. When I do that, I just replace the weeks intensity workout with an endurance ride.
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How does TR respond to that, how does it classify it? I get the impression that this how a lot of the WT riders do their intensity within their long rides rather than having a day where they just do something like Swamp a 9.9 level VO2 workout with all intervals over 2 hours.
I do want to work my way up to doing Hart once I work up to that PL with SS90 workouts, I feel I do struggle to lift from one intensity to another and return back to another intensity, so think that one would pick at my weakness there.
Well, a slightly annoying thing is that the freerides don’t count towards the PL’s at all. Apparently, it is considered in terms of AI FTP evaluations. Based on how many non TR workouts (free ride workouts) I’ve been doing lately, aside from intervals, I’d believe it. Particularly because my FTP has been steadily increasing this year with the program I’ve outlined.
Regarding pro training, it seems that so many of their rides are all like 3-6 hrs anyways, that their intervals are naturally incorporated into the long rides somehow.
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Hey would you mind sharing more about how long your rides were? And how you settled on .68-.78?
That is a “zone” I really enjoy riding at but if I do that I can’t really hit my intervals good.
I’ve been hovering closer to .63 or so for my endurance rides, one interval, and one ride at .75 a week. I’m gonna make that .75 my longest ride…currently it’s at 2 hours but gonna build that up. (Doing 10 hours total)
Just would like to hear more about your training and if it’s still going well.
Tyty
Wow. that’s an old but oddly relevant question currently. So. For the timeframe of when I posted that, checking my history I was basically 68-75% mostly. I think the biggest week I had was 18hours. And was pretty commonly above 15h. As for how it’s going., Well. that’s a tale.
I decided to mix it up, I think I peaked around 365w ftp. I got a coach and did a lot of vo2max workouts. So much that I became fairly proficient and not afraid of them. I also did a lot of over under type workouts. My ability to do vo2max skyrocketed. I’ve always been pretty good at threshold. But because the vo2 work is so taxing my volume dropped a lot. I think I was down to 10 hours a week.
So my FTP dropped a bit, down to about 350 or so, and sort of stayed there.
Then…Life and work, and finally covid wiped me out. I was sick for an entire month, and didn’t train for another after that. It was rough, and because of all the other stress I was slow to get going again. But I sort of did a fairly mixed bag, 1 vo2, 1 threshold 3 zone2. Did that for a while. And recently I decided I’d try something silly. But I got covid again just as I was starting. It only took me out for 10 days but my ftp dropped from 320 to 303 (ftp ramp tested). ouch.
I know this is getting long-winded. But anyway. So the crazy idea is something I’m calling the Endurance Ramp Test. Basically I ride every day for a set period of time. Then on mondays I add 10 minutes to that duration. After the recent covid I dropped the starting time to 40 minutes. And the rule is, the ride is ~75% avg heart rate (I keep it steady). First week 7 x 40 minutes, second week 7 x 50 minutes, ride every day. The test is how many consecutive days can I ride and at what duration will I finally give up. Currently I’m on 70 minute rides. Here is the end of my first week of 40minutes, and yesterdays 70minute. 140bpm is ~75%.
That said my coach said out loud to me directly that I’m an anomaly. That my ability to gain ftp like that from zone 2 is not normal. Who knows if he is right. I do know that if I don’t put in at least 10 hours a week I get fat. I weigh 20 pounds more than I did last year) I do know that I can fully recover from a 2.5 hour zone2 ride in under 24 hours. It takes me 1.5 days to fully recover from a hard threshold day, and 2 - 3 for vo2max. (you start to see the reason for the ‘ideal schedule’ of 1xVo2 1xThreshold, 3xZone2. ). I also know that my vo2max abilities were bad, I don’t even think I could do 110% of my threshold for 3 minutes. But I did train it up quickly, and coming from all that zone 2 the vo2max workouts did not feel fatiguing because they were so short (only an 1h20m and low overall kjs) I’d get done and just think, that’s it? 
But they are sneaky, it’s a fatigue I can’t easily feel. Whereas with zone2 I feel the recovery.
So really what’s it all about? Shockingly, it ends up looking a lot like a traditional model. Long / big base miles, then tuning up for punch and losing a little of the sustained power. Imagine.
But anyway, this is very long now. I’m going to continue on the endurance ramp test. (it’s a silly name I know, just some fun). If you are interested I’ll drop back in and let you know where I end up.
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yeah super interested. would love to hear your progress. this whole thread is great.
my main goal with cycling is fitness. I’m a bigger rider but ~10 hours/ week keeps my body fat really low. but I will never race - and my size (plus immobile hip making it harder to get aero) means I’ll never be fast fast. I’d still like my endurance speed to increase but I hate going super slow for my zone 2 cause that’s 90% of my riding. I really don’t care about my high end or top end speed other than I know building my FTP will build my endurance speed.
my perfect ride enjoyment-wise is 90m-2 hours at a brisk pace (speed-wise) ~240 watts which works out to 75% FTP currently and I get off and feel like it was nothing. right now 240 watts does not feel like nothing.
I also like doing other fitness related things and don’t want my legs fried. right now doing like 210 watts feels like “nothing”. I figured gotta get myself to 4w/kg (~355-360watts) to get the endurance pace I’d like.
anyway ty for replying!
At nearly 70 I’ve got a long history of training in running and cycling. While I was a successful runner cycling took longer to find the recipe for success. The improvement started too late in life(40) but I had coaching from Dave Smith and made big improvements. When I started using a Powertap wheel , training with power made a big difference from training with HR which I had always done before.
I was 4 watts/kg and weighed 52k at 5ft 2 “ .
Now at 69 I’m sadly no longer 4 watts /kg, but I weigh 50k and am still 5ft 2”.
I’m aiming to get to 3.5 watts/k .
In my experience, the best way to do this is to consistently follow the TR plans .
But 2025 has been different with all kinds of distractions , injuries and crashes, + during a great summer ,doing ultra bike packing events.
All this meant I abandoned TR, and took to the mountains riding for hours on end.
I might have been fit, but my FTP dropped by about 16 w. which I’m now working to get back and beyond.
Consistency and focus are the key. I wouldn’t stress about diet and all these other things unless you are a pro. A balanced diet and “normal “ food is perfect for most of us.
Tho’ my bikepacking diet is Magnum or Mr whippy icecream, cocoa pops, coke, kitkat and salt+vinegar crisps, and plain yogurt and dried mango and nuts. Now I still have all that in addition to my healthier meals.
I don’t use a coach now, as TR fulfils that role, and the podcasts and videos are good advice.
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I’ve joined the ranks of 4w/kg cyclists - a year after starting to ride consistently (80% indoor, 20% outdoor). my stats tell me i average just over 5 hrs/week. I started last october with a realistic ftp of around 3w/kg having been active and vaguely fit but never done endurance sports apart from a half marathon and a few 10ks. I was athletic at school though, maybe 5th percentile although much more of a sprinter (as I am as a cyclist). I’ve lost a couple of kg but nothing remarkable. I’m 45, 76kg and ftp is ~310 at a lowish TTE of 45 mins
I haven’t done that much structured training, but I have developed a very good sense of RPE and the principles of cycling training from many sources. In my 5hrs a week I have got plenty of intensity from zwift races and attacking strava segments outside. I did relatively few long rides apart from a 5 day 600km trip to the alps. I do think this mega dose of volume triggered a (delayed) fitness boost though, after a week or so of recovery.
Looking at stats, I’ve buried myself trying to do well in zwift races, and I believe thats been key to making improvements. My non-intense rides are now pretty mild and short, but I really hit the vo2s and races hard.
I enjoyed reading this thread a while back, so thought I’d share my year long story. Now my fun targets are 1200W 15 secs, 600W 1 minute and 400W 5 minutes. the latter two aren’t that far off. And doing a crit race next year, assuming i can get a license here (my bike handling is pretty poor).
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Since this post in May I finished my big training block and dropped a few watts and gained a couple lbs.
Dropped a few more lbs the last month, got my FTP back up a bit, and back to 3.99 watts/kg. Determined to drop a lb by next week. This 4 watts/kk frequently escapes me at least it’s a good sign that I’m maintaining fitness as my training has been very mediocre since July with cross country move, change of jobs, and no planned races. If I can reasonably hold this, which seems manageable, that’ll have me in a great position going into next years training season
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I’ve dropped below 4W/KG after peaking at 4.07W/KG earlier this year. To be expected in my off season. I think it’s healthier not to be trying to push peak fitness year round. But this was never a target anyway, it just happened.
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Finally hit 4 w/kg! Thrilled that my current w/kg is higher than my peak training season around May/June, despite riding around 5-7 hrs/wk right now.
I’d love to hit 4.2 in peak next year, but we’ll have to see how it goes. I recently adjusted my training slightly and plan to a bit next year considering my races have gone from pretty flat souther midwest stuff to super hilly PNW. I need more sustained longer power for big climbs as opposed to the short punchy stuff from the past. I’ve traditionally been anti tempo and sweet spot, but will be incorporating a bit more now.
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How much TSS are you doing now? Curious what types of workouts you’re doing?
Below are graphs with more granularity for the last few months and then expanded for the past year. We relocated from Texas to Washington in early October and slowed down during that busy period.
Up until the last few weeks, my training has always been focused on polarized. Threshold/vo2 and then Z2. My Z2 was often at like .55-.6 IF, which looking back, I think was a bit TOO easy. I’m currently in off season but am admittedly pushing a little too hard I think. I’ll dial it back a bit in December and maybe part of January, before attempting to ramp up.
During my harder in season training you’ll see targets were typically 400-500+ TSS. Right now, around 300-350 seems solid for off season. I usually follow a 3-4 week “on”, then a week of mostly Z2.
I haven’t done a TR structured program in a LONG time. I did the Polarized plan (once or twice?). It was good and dang hard. I enjoy doing my own similar plan. For my non Z2 workouts I always plan for them to at least be a higher progression level than my current level not always a ton more (often just .2 or .3), and that’s fine too.
With the move to Washington, my outdoor rides are like 40 miles with 5000’ climbing, and scenic and FUN. With the terrain and structure, they aren’t my long weekend Z2 only rides like Texas, but that’s ok. I generally love biking for the sense of accomplishment I feel after the ride, as well as the feeling the rest of the day. It’s a rare treat that I actually love the riding portion (except for races), so having that opportunity here is fantastic.
It was actually the TR podcast a few weeks ago with Keegan that convinced me to swap out a threshold/VO2 ride for SS, and also to increase Z2 intensity for the higher part of Z2 as a way to get more TSS on the less hours.
Hope this helps - happy to chime in with more details if needed. (P.s. no one look at today’s ride. 3 hours of intensity on the trainer crushing 45 & 1 hr PR’s. Out of town for 4 days this week and not riding, so wearing out my legs beforehand. I also got a new pair of cycling shoes that begged to ride hard) 
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