I’m only 59 kg, have put on ~3kg since 2022, if my weight would have stayed static as I gained power, I expect I would have hit 4 w/kg sooner and I would currently be ~4.2w/kg instead of 4.0. Given how light I am however, I think absolute power is more important than w/kg.
The things I found interesting about EJ’s journey mentioned above was he started doing hours and hours of Z2 while he was 70 pounds heavier, kept up with the high volume Z2 but the w/kg of that Z2 would get a huge boost as he lost that weight.
I could likely lose a pound or two from stopping creatine and maybe a further 5 pounds while reducing my body fat % but something like, losing a final 5-10 pounds seems to make more sense for peak of race season rather than trying to run that throughout the year.
What you said (your words) is this:
“If you are in a caloric deficit your training will suffer.”
And that is not across the board true. Nobody is saying it isn’t more difficult and you can’t screw it up, but that’s not what you said.
It is true. If you don’t fuel for intense rides and don’t fuel for recovery, they will not be of sufficient quality and your recovery will suffer.
You can believe what you want, I’ll keep following what my sports nutritionist has advised me.
No, it is not across the board true.
You can still fuel for intense rides, fuel for recovery, have workouts be of sufficient quality, and can recover while being in a caloric deficit.
It is harder, and doesn’t work all of the time either, but Your problem is you’re applying advice that works some of the time, to everyone all of the time. And, because your sports nutritionist told you doesn’t make it right.
I didn’t say “across the board”, that was your phrasing (or the other person). I myself have over the last 2-3 months improved power while losing weight. I said your training will suffer. For most people, it makes no sense trying to be undercaloric on a day of intense exercise. Getting that right is far too difficult to advise anyone of trying it on their own. Your pedantry in trying to point out that it is theoretically possible is not helping anyone. As I said, even pros get this wrong, but you’re somehow out to make a point. Who knows why.
Your problem is you’re applying advice that works some of the time, to everyone all of the time.
At least I am not giving out misleading information just because I have a point to prove. I never said all people all the time. I just said “your training will suffer”. And I will be right in almost every case of someone trying this on their own, especially if they have no relevant background on the topic. Your theoretical approach to a practical issue is misguided and yes, I wonder why you’re so bothered.
Personally I eat on the intense days and am undercaloric on the less intense days. This is much more achievable than being undercaloric every day, worrying about being fuelled enough, worrying about eating sufficiently after. So no, she doesn’t have to be “right”. She just has to be right in terms of what will work for people in practice.
I’m not going to turn this into another weight loss thread, so my last comment.
I’ve posted what you said, go read it again. It was explicit. The way you wrote it was not and is not correct. Maybe you meant it differently which is fine, but I can only react to what you wrote.
I’m also not saying what you wrote isn’t in general good advice, I’m not saying the way you’re doing it doesn’t work, and I’m glad it’s working for you, really. For the most part, that’s my approach too.
Yes, it may not work for everyone, and it requires a lot of “diligence” but I am saying that it is also possible to fuel and recover, improve, and build fitness to the same extent while also being in a (mild) caloric deficit.
Congrats on the numerator and denominator improvements simultaneously! I completely agree with your diet principles above with regards to protein in particular. My question though: How the heck do you consistently get 150g per day? Are you shooting for around 1.8-2 g per kg? I’m around 65kg, so need less than that, but I find it hard to get that much protein - tell me your secrets lol. One of my issues is that I can’t process dairy, so that cuts some nice options out.
I can’t speak to the previous poster, but I usually hit 170 to 180 per day fairly easily. I love things like Skyr, eat plenty of chicken etc… so never been a big issue. I will use half a scoop of protein powder in my evening snack often as well.
I’m in a very similar situation as @critpig. Started counting cals in late January, shooting for a ~400 cal deficit and went from 82.5Kg to 76.5 this morning. Slight increase in FTP during that time (315 to 319). I had been consistently between 3.5 and 3.8W/Kg for a long time and now sitting above 4. But most importantly I’ve been feeling great and crushing workouts.
I too have been shooting for ~150g of proteins and I’m still trying to hit that consistently. I’m getting closer now that I started using protein powder.
I rode with the fast drop group for the first time ever this past weekend. I had assumed everyone on the ride was pushing at least 4w/kg. It turns out the only guys and gals able to do that kind of power-to-watt ratio are under 65kg. Everyone else was in the mid-3w/kg or even less.
I was surprisingly able to hang onto them because most of the climbs are under 2 minutes, I have enough anaerobic capacity to churn out 6 w/kg for that much time. I ended up getting drop on the big 5 minute climb, but so did everyone else over 75kg. The only heavier guys that were able to hang on the climb were two beasts over 190cm who were professional rowers before they went into cycling, so genetic freaks :).
Yeah some days I found it tough when in the office and not prepared, but in general I always had lean cuts of animal protein in the fridge/pantry; chicken breast, lean steak cuts, cans of tuna, egg whites…also:
- Good vegan/plant-based protein (~25g a serve). Did this most days in a smoothie with frozen berries.
- Quite often did a tofu ‘scrambled’ with veg and soy sauce (slightly higher in fat than lean cuts of meat)
I’m very comfortable being a boring eater. chicken breast, rice and soy sauce was a bit of a staple.
edit: lean beef jerky was also a great addition, despite the massive amounts of sodium.
This thread is like every podcast of late… turns into a calorie discussion. 
4 watt/kg has been the goal for me for a while. I’ve been around 3.4-3.5 for a few years now. I feel like i’ve broken through a barrier this year power wise, I’m ahead of where I usually am.
The kg portion…I eat quite cleanly. It really does come down to beer for me. I’m a pretty big guy for a cyclist…if I hit 4 watt/kg it will be at around 320ftp, so I feel like i could do some damage in races if I get there.
Just googled skyr - thanks, I’ll keep an eye out for it.
You’re not wrong. But you also should not be surprised that the topic of weight management comes up in a thread asking how one gets to 4W/Kg.
You can get about 60-70 grams of protein from 8oz of cooked chicken breast, 6 ounces of steak is about 50 grams of protein, 30-40 grams of protein in cooked salmon.
Breakfast I eat Oats with a scoop of protein powder and peanut butter in the morning, maybe add some fresh fruit on top also.
Lunch it depends but usually I’ll have a sandwich with about 8 ounces of Turkey or chicken breast with some sweet potatoes or sweet potato fries.
Then dinner It depends on my work day but I try to eat a lot of meat and vegetables with whatever starch (carbs) I made at work.
I get 150-180 gs of protein a day, I’m 6’3” 185-190#.
No secrets, I always try to have lots of protein with every meal and don’t skimp on seasoning or sauces to enhance the flavor.
Man, the dairy thing would be tough for me. Fairlife chocolate milk is my go-to. When training hard, I struggle to keep it under a jug per day (about 850 calories and 80g of protein in a bottle). Expensive habit, but cheaper than some of the recovery drinks. Pretty easy for me to get well over 150g/day with the chocolate milk, meat/fish, eggs and/or peanut butter for breakfast, etc… My bigger challenge is healthy carbs. I can get plenty of carbs, but not always the good ones.
One of the guys that rides with us occasionally runs Fairlife….he started Core, got bought by them and now runs the whole thing. Good guy and strong AF.
They have an all blue kit with the cow on the front and back….pretty sweet kit.
That’s pretty cool, it really is a great product. I like the core stuff also, they used to give cases away as primes at our local crit series (I was all in on the core power primes, it was better than what you got for winning the race).
Ask him if he’s interested in sponsoring an old dude from Texas! For what I spend on their milk in a year, I think unlimited milk would be more valuable to me than a bike sponsorship.
You mean “gotta get that 2g/kg body weight” spiel?