Just do it. I made the switch to SRAM AXS in May of 2019 and have been pleased. I cannot think of a reason to switch back to Shimano.
1 Like
Trying to think of ideas for some wide range gearing. Can I use 2 Rival AXS shifters with a GX AXS Eagle derailleur?
2 Likes
Yup! If you go that route you do Eagle all around (chain and cassette too). But shifters will shift any AXS derailleur, they don’t care if it’s road or mountain.
2 Likes
I know what I’m doing on once this stuff is back in stock!!!
I changed on my current bike. I went all Force, but changing on your current bike will allow you to customize what you want parts wise. Save $$ and get a Rival FD or RD, Force shifters (or Rival) and a Force crank to save weight. Or mullet group, etc.
I think getting it on a bike makes sense also. 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of another.
The biggest PITA with the swap over is changing free hub bodies over if you have existing wheels- and making sure they’re compatible.
1 Like
New bike is the way to go…unless you want to get the run around looking for parts or gouged on eBay. Rival shifter/caliper sets should be $200 each for left and right. A set with L&R is upwards of $750 on eBay since they’re out of stock everywhere.
I just started looking and I’m glad I’m not in a rush
All eTap AXS components are compatible with one another, the compatibility chart is super easy. 
(Note that AXS implies you have a 12 speed drivetrain, you can’t match older 11-speed Red eTap shifters with 12-speed front and rear derailleurs.)
I think the best bang for the buck is a Rival eTap AXS groupset with a Red crank.
Parts availability is a nightmare.
I had to wait 4.5 months until my bike was delivered and assembled. And I had to jump through some hoops (e. g. my bike shop organized a RTP frame at no extra cost and had it painted for a modest amount). And I forwent Red cranks, because those would have needed another 2+ months. I didn’t want to wait until June or July for a bike I ordered in January.
2 Likes
SRAM all day every day! Shimano while fast and precise is too dainty at least when comparing mechanical. As for electronic as many have said the SRAM shift logic is so superior. Also never liked how close Shimano shift controls are to each other.
2 Likes
Ive had it happen on 3 different sram brakes. Asked my shop about it and they said that happens with dot fluid. Im not saying it happens in a month, but if you dont bleed on a regular schedule, the fluid does in deed starts to expand. Is kinda nice as your brakes dont get squishy, they actually get more firm. The problem is when you want to put new pads in, the pistons dont go all the way out, so you need to lets some fluid out. If you bleed on the recommended schedule, you wont have this problem. I have too many bike and some of them sit around for a while so the fluid gets a bit old before i run thru pads.
I’ve ran a few different group sets (Shimano, Campagnolo and Microshift) but until last month I had never used SRAM. The bike I have borrowed has mechanical SRAM. I quite like it for shift down the cassette/ rings, it’s nice smooth, fast and precise but I less enamoured with it going the other way, its pretty much the opposite.
Maybe my hands are too weak but I have a particular mental block taking my hands off the brake near the bottom of a sharp hill etc to enable me to get enough fingers on the gear lever to change up the cassette and get a low enough gear to restart.
I like the concept of ETap but I can’t see me getting a mechanical SRAM bike.
The combined brake-shift function of the brake lever on Shimano’s drop bar STI levers always drove me nuts. I come from the world of mountain biking, so I really dislike having to use the same fingers for braking and shifting. Downshifting while modulating the brake is a pain. Yes, it is possible, but having dedicated levers like you do on SRAM and Campag is just better in my opinion.
With SRAM — mechanical or electronic — you simply use multiple fingers, I use index and middle finger most of the time, but sometimes also the ring finger if I use index and middle finger for braking or am in the tops and am too lazy to move my hand. The lever throw of SRAM’s STI levers is smaller, so you don’t need as much force. That’s even more true when you have eTap. (The huge lever throw of Shimano’s mechanical drop bar groupset is another strong dislike of mine.)
2 Likes
Anyone tried new shimano 12s di2 vs sram etap
I have to make a decision on which to buy
I haven’t even seen it in the flesh. But from all I have heard it pretty much is like Shimano’s 11-speed Di2, just with an extra gear. I think that’s a good enough basis to make your decision on. I’m sure it will be reliable, but I wouldn’t get Shimano’s power meter.
2 Likes
To rehash a lot of what’s been said, but with a focus on the 12 speed.
For me, SRAM’s big advantages were ratios, shift logic, and the ability to fit to (just about) any frame. Di2 won out on shift speed, reliability and lighter weight.
To a degree, Di2 now going 12 speed removes (or at least limits) the ratio argument; a 52/36 and 11-34 is as close to 48/35 and 10-33 as makes no difference, and the 50/34 combo effectively equals 46/33. Admittedly SRAM still gives more options here, though, especially with the 10-36 cassette. Having a 46/33 setup also lets you spent a lot of time in the big ring in flat/rolling terrain and minimises FD shifts. So, still advantage SRAM IMO, but not enough to sway me, either.
Di2 does do its core job of shifting, IMO, ever so slightly better than AXS. However, I think you only notice at the front, and AXS is still faster than any Shimano or SRAM mechanical (and very similar to Campag here). The new 12sp Di2 has apparently increased this gap. Advantage Shimano, but again, no biggie.
AXS does seem a bit more prone to chain drops than Di2, but this is largely down to setup, IMO; if you absolutely nail the FD setup, it works very well. +1 Shimano.
The shift logic argument remains unchanged, as does the frame fitting aspect. +1 SRAM
Di2 remains lighter, but not by much.
Rival AXS wins out massively on value.
So all in all, if money is no issue, and you’re buying as part of a complete bike, then I’d probably go Di2 for a performance road bike, but tbh there’s not much in it. Personally I’d buy a Rival AXS setup, then use some of the savings to swap in a Red chainset and cassette (as someone suggested above). It’ll work out not much more than half the price of Di2 and you save over 300g compared to the ‘stock’ weight of Rival. Do note that you can’t fit sprint shifters/blips to Rival, which may annoy you (or be a complete irrelevance!)
I’m a mechanical fan, but I do think Rival AXS is a bit of a game changer.
4 Likes
Pulling the trigger on red group set over ultegra di2 12s. Seems like everyone loves sram ergonomics, better gear combos, and lighter with a better power meter. Was thinking of going 52/39 since it would keep my chain line straighter but that will take an extra derailure. Going to go with a 50/37 and max rear so I can go with a 36
Digging up this old thread to add another opinion.
In my current quiver I have
Mtb with 2021 XX1 AXS / p2m ng powermeter
Mtb with XTR 9100 12s mechanical / easton spindle powermeter
Road with di2 ultegra/dura-ace / assioma powermeter
If you were to ride any of these bikes pretty much anyone would be delighted with the shift performance. Riding them back to back makes the XX1 AXS feel like a crude rough noisy experience in comparison. This is only noticeable in a back to back comparison. XX1 shifts just fine. It gets the job done and has proven to be durable and reliable, it just isn’t as razor sharp precise as the shimano.
The di2 ultegra/dura-ace with a 12s chain is hands down the best of the bunch in terms of shifting and drivetrain performance. It does everything best, IMO. Ergonomics, aside, as that is entirely subjective and personal, it shifts with such precise authority that it continues to make me smile every time I bang a bigger gear.
The mechanical XTR group is slightly slower than the di2 but not by much. It is crisp and precise.
For braking… a much different story. I’ll never buy another bike with SRAM brakes. I’m done with their bs. My xx1 axs bike came with the g2 ultimate. Worst brakes I’ve ever used. DOT fluid is antiquated at this point. Numerous changes to pads, replacing the discs, spending endless amounts of time trying to adjust the calipers to make them quiet. Nothing worked. Two different shops told me that’s just how SRAM brakes are. I eventually switched this bike to Shimano XTR brakes and discs and life is 100% better. With some adapter brackets, everything is even mounted up to the sram levers in a relatively factory-looking setup.
The SRAM app is 10x better than the shimano etube garbage. BUT i practically never use either app for anything, so I’m not sure that either actually matter. A nicer app has a lot of appeal but in practice it doesn’t make that much difference to me.
The mix-match of SRAM is nice but I’ve not encountered any limitations with Shimano that ever made me consider other options. 1x 12s is great for my straight trail riding but frankly totally inadequate gear range for my road and gravel riding. A single chainring just doesn’t cut it. Do you want to do some real climbing, or do you want to go fast on the flats? Pick one. A single ring with the biggest cassette spread just isn’t as good as two rings. I know… not a very sexy opinion these days.
I’ve encountered low battery issues with both AXS and Di2. Di2 has some semi-graceful low battery behavior to help get you home. The AXS just died on me. Both were 100% my own fault for forgetting to charge. No fault of SRAM or Shimano.
The integrated shifter/brake lever of the dropbar gear makes SRAM a complete nonstarter in my book. It doesn’t matter how good SRAM shifting might be, their brakes are intolerable.
2 Likes
Sram 2-pot breaks let you find the lord and save your soul. Anyone telling you otherwise is
a very light person
racing-riding xc only
using gigantic disks
thinks 900m is a mountain.
Change my mind.
In what way does shifting feel crude and noisy? I have similar setups (Force eTap AXS and XTR M9000), and at least SRAM‘s electronic road groupsets aren’t noisy at all. (Shimano‘s Di2 groupsets I have tried produce a whirring sound, which I don‘t like, but would probably get used to.) Compared to my previous XT drivetrain, my XTR is definitely smoother, but softer than XX1 mechanical I tried a few years ago on a rental. Shifts with XX1 felt more positive, more binary, 0-1, either you have shifted or you have not. Shimano‘s shifts are “softer”. But I wouldn‘t characterize either as superior to the other. I did like SRAM‘s double-tap-equivalent trigger shifter better, though. Overall, I‘m very happy that by lucky accident my new-used bike came with XTR, I really, really like it.
AFAIK the SRAM brakes to get are the Code Rs (and up), which are as light or lighter than Shimano 4-pot brakes and have a good reputation. I haven‘t tried them, though. Shimano brakes do work very well, though, so this is definitely an uphill battle for SRAM. I will have to replace the brakes on my new-to-me mountain bike (the previous owner took off the XTR brakes before selling it to me and put on very old Avid brakes), and try as I might, I will probably stick with Shimano.
1x12 works well for me on my road bike and I live close to proper mountains. Gravel riders seem to be split. Most of the people here in Japan with gravel bikes have gotten 1x (most of them Shimano 1x). But I get that others don‘t feel that way. SRAM gives you a choice, Shimano doesn‘t.
Have you tried both? I‘m a big fan of Shimano‘s mountain bike disc brakes, but in my experience their hydraulic disc brakes are inferior to SRAM‘s, and it is not even close. Shimano‘s drop bar brakes have a wooden feel to them, not much in terms of modulation, but aren‘t as sharp as their mountain bike brakes. My SRAM brakes have way more modulation and give me more feedback.
1 Like
I find the shimano shifts are much more decisive. In fact, the way you describe why you like the SRAM shifting is exactly how I think about the shimano shifting. My XX1 shifts precisely but not as instantly or with as much authority as either the di2 or mechXTR. the di2 is stunning in its precision. The xx1 drivetrain always makes more noise to my ear. Not bad noise, I just hear it more than I hear the shimano stuff. An interesting test I like to do it go for a short ride with earplugs in. Then mid ride pull the ear plugs out. The sounds and noise of the drivetrain become extra obvious. I’ve read that some people have better luck with a KMC chain than the sram chains, but I’ve never tried.
One’s local terrain will absolutely determine the appropriate gearing. I have not found a 1x12 setup that will make me happy doing some decent flat mileage, gnarly climbing and super fast descents. Without creating too big a jump between rings, even 2x11 can feel a little short in range. I’m keen to try a 2x12 at some point here. Real running gears AND real climb like a goat gears.
I’ve never understood all the fixation with brake modulation. I don’t find shimano to be lacking any finesse, even compared to maguro and others known for their excellent brake feel. I use my mtb brakes a lot more than i use my road bike brakes. Or rather, the braking application is generally different. short hard pulses vs longer sustained speed control. Maybe I like the wooden feel?
Speaking of brakes, the sram brakes always stopped just fine. They just make a ton of noise and god forbid they get wet and then they howl even louder.
Super cool that we have so many good options these days!
2 Likes
To be clear: I am not claiming their mountain bike brakes have a wooden feel, just their hydraulic road disc brakes.
On a mountain bike I completely agree with you that Shimano’s brakes are great. I have had Hayes FX9, Magura Julies, Shimano XT and Avid DB-1s now. My Shimano XT brakes were great, I also loved the Julies. Both have been flawless for me, they lasted until I sold the bikes with no degradation in functionality. What more do you want from brakes? I’ll probably replace the Avid DB-1s with Deore XT or SLX brakes very soon. (Since I live in Shimano country, this is likely the easiest option.)
But on a road bike, Shimano stated that it engineered the shift/brake levers to mimic the feel of rim brakes, which seems like a big mistake to me. That, I believe, is the origin of the wooden feel. I have two generations of Shimano’s hydraulic drivetrains in both, their 105 and Ultegra incarnations, and they all have the same bad brake feel with little-to-no-feedback. My Force eTap AXS brakes are a giant improvement. Even if you don’t like SRAM’s mountain bike brakes, I recommend you give their road brakes a try.
With regards to brake noise, I was always blessed with quiet brakes on my road bikes, be it Shimano or SRAM. So it is a wash for me in the best sense.
To be honest, I don’t think it is the terrain. Where I live (Japan) I can climb from pretty much sea level to up to 1,700 m with the longest sustained climb being about 1,000 m in elevation in one go. Doing that with 1x (with a 10-36 cassette) is no issue for me. I can hang with very fast riders, did crit races and will likely do hill climb TTs this year, too.
I have almost the exact same gearing as a compact crank coupled to an 11-28 cassette (360 % vs. 374 %). My previous road bike was 2x11, it sported a compact crank and a 11-32 cassette. The jumps in between gears feel identical to my SRAM 11-32 cassette where the 11-tooth cog has been replaced with a 36-tooth cog. (And you can confirm that by looking at the gear jumps, they are indeed very, very similar.) If a 11-32 cassette works fine for you now, I don’t see how people can complain about the steps in SRAM’s 10-36 cassette, because it just isn’t there. (You could have smaller steps in the middle of your gears by staying in the small chainring, but everyone I know switches to the big chainring as soon as they can, including myself when I had two.)
I would say that whether you prefer 1x or 2x is determined by two factors: (1) At speed (e. g. on the flats), do you prefer spinning or grinding? And (2) your gear range needs (anxiety?). Personally, I like spinning at higher speeds (think 37-50 km/h), so even on my previous road bike with 2x, I was usually in 50:14–50:13 at high speeds. I only used the 50:11 on the downhills, and when I had a loaner with a semicompact, I used the 52:11 only on very, very few descents. And my gear needs are being met at any speed. I of course wouldn’t mind an easier gear, especially because that would make it easier to do endurance rides in the mountains. But that’s ok. I’m also fairly fit (last season I peaked at 342 W/4.7 W/kg), so if I needed lower gears, that’d probably be easier on 2x. But even on 2x, I probably wouldn’t want to get much larger gears, because that would shift the tightly spaced gears to speeds that I would rarely attain in practice.
Still, I don’t want to come across as claiming that 1x would work better for you, not at all. I’d just say that some of the oft-repeated common lores are not correct (like 1x12 does not work in mountainous terrain), at least not for all riders. My argument is that 1x12 is good enough to be considered as an option for many riders when they get a new bike with drop bars, and groupset manufacturers should give riders the option.
2 Likes