I know it’s been leaked for a while, but finally released today. Force and Rival basically get all the updates we got with Red last year (improved braking/hood design, 13 speed XPLR, new cranks, etc.). Rival doesn’t get the “bonus buttons” on the shifters, but gets the new piston design and ergonomics.
Lots of good stuff in the new release, but I was waiting on the updated shifters after riding the Red E1 shifters a while back. I got a new gravel frame recently and considered buying the Red, but just couldn’t stomach the cost ($675 per side w/calipers). The new Force has a price increase ($385 per side), but I’m happy I waited since they appear to be identical from a performance standpoint and still saving a lot. The shifters will be going on my gravel bike for now, but I expect they may spend some time on the XC bike also (the bonus buttons can be used to control dropper and flight attendant).
I honestly really want to get the new force hoods for my road and gravel bike. But I recon upgrading my roval Terra C wheels to a lighter and deeper wheel is probably a better way to spend my sadly not unlimited funds. (Yall agree or disagree)
What do yall recon is the actual difference between red and force hoods? Like they say they are heavier. But it what way? Both have carbon blades. Surly the electronics are the same. Only thing I can think of is the rubber on the hood having a different texture. I honestly think the Force hoods look better. So I don’t see myself ever getting the Red unless someone sells me a smoking deal on a bike that already has them.
Honestly, I think Sram killed it with this release. Gave us exactly what we asked for and expected without any real “Now what exactly where you thinking to decide to do that”
There is only about a 2 gram difference between the force and red levers, basically nonexistent. Best data i can find on the calipers is about 5 grams, but thats hard to find with the brake cable weight. So 14ish grams heavier for force looking at just brakes.
I like the look of the force levers myself, and the bonus buttons seem a bit bigger too. My plan is to get force brakes and then upgrade the calipers to the cooler silver red ones, as well as the HUGE weight savings of 10 grams
It’s a bit of a pity I had one shifter changed a few months ago, because the new shifters look sweet. The products are excellent, it doesn’t seem that SRAM has gimped any functionality. I’d stick to Force if I were to buy an entire groupset. If I bought components piecemeal, I might save some €€€ by going for a Rival rear derailleur.
Does new force rear derailleur (2*12) have new internals/better shifting/better chain management compared to old force?
I see they added oversized pulley as red has but wonder if it is worth upgrading?
Also my 5 cents: new shifters seem owesome (thinking about upgrading existing force to new rival), but they seem to add +1.5cm to the reach, so may need shorter stem which is not so easy if you have integrated roval cockpit or some other integrated handlebar…
Also they did great job making dual-sided powermeter being non-integrated into chainrings, because it’s costly to change your powermeter every 25-30k kilometers. But unfortunalely it doesn’t work with existing cranks, so as soon as my/your chainrings with powermeter worn out, there is a need to either change cranks + chainring (to new force model with exchangable chainrings and powermeter) or maybe switch to pedal-based powermeter, because there is no sense in buying powermeter integrated into chainrings anymore…
If you have money to spare, I would only upgrade what is needed, starting with the shifters. The great thing is that everything seems to be backwards compatible to D1- and D2-series groupsets.
I’d opt for Force over Rival shifter levers simply because of the added auxiliary buttons.
With the crank, I’d consider Red for weight savings.
The rest I wouldn’t upgrade unless you got a great deal on the entire groupset.
IIRC only the 2x cranks have a replaceable power meter, not 1x with the spider power meter. Then they also have the spindle power meter on some cranks. It’s odd. GPLama talks about it in his YouTube video.
Yes, and at least the Force crank features the same old 8-bolt pattern, which means it should be fully compatible with the Quarq that adorns my road bike right now.
I wish SRAM would clarify that. Giving a native two-sided* power meter only to the 2x configuration seems odd.
I was under the impression that you could send in your old chainring + power meter and get a sizable discount on the new chainring + power meter, which (from memory) was roughly on par with the cost of a power meter.
Not justifying SRAM’s (bad) decision here, I’m glad I can change chainrings without having to change power meter on my Force AXS eTap D1 crank.
I upgraded from Red D1 to E1 and I initially thought they were longer and they certainly look like they are but your hand wil be in the exact same position from the bars as with the old levers
I have sram rival xplr 12 speed on my gravel bike. Am I wrong in thinking that the red/force/rival e1 levers would be compatible with my setup? My biggest complaint with my current setup is the hood ergonomics.
I just built up a bike with the now “old” levers and kinda want to try the new design as I do struggle with one finger braking. The brakes/levers feel powerful enough for it but the AXS paddle jams up against the rest of my fingers and can’t fully compress. Looks like the new design puts the curve further up and forward so the paddle doesn’t bottom out against fingers while on the hoods.
If you do upgrade you should indeed find ergos much better as well as dramatically improved braking power, feel and ease of application. The shift paddle interference between bar and fingers has been an issue with SRAM since its mechanical days but I can say that they have made good strides with E1 ergonomics. Red or Force, the upgrade will be worth it. Upgrade wise is completely individual. Simply based on cost the Force components are a pretty easy choice but Red offers a more finished look with the polished and cut away calipers. With the shifters it’s a wash in looks but clearly advantage Force with cost. Personally with my nicest bike I chose to go for Red to have all my components match but totally see saving $$ and having virtually all of the fit and performance upgrades.
I noticed that Allied and Lauf have added force/rival XPLR builds to their lineup while keeping the “mullet” transmission versions. Previously, the only Rival/Force options were mullet builds (no XPLR other than red). Will be interesting to see where the demand goes and if they keep a mix of XPLR and transmission bikes in the lineup. I’m personally a fan of the mullet approach for gravel over XPLR (even with the 13sp), but my big target races have quite a bit of climbing where I want the bigger range. For flatter stuff, these new groups are great (I’d argue they make a great 1x road group even if not doing gravel). Red XPLR 13 was so expensive that I’m not sure it was a good gauge of market demand, but 13speed XPLR in Rival w/ UDH is probably going to sell some bikes.
I re-watched that part (I skimmed his video this morning), and it seems correct: the Force crank uses an 8-bolt patter, which means that older Quarq power meters (like the one on my first-gen Force AXS eTap crank) would fit mechanically. I’m not sure whether my current chainrings would officially work as they precede the switch to Flattop chains.
I’m really happy SRAM is continuing to iterate on that 8 bolt design. In my opinion, it’s the best crank/spider system ever with the ability to easily swap spiders, PM’s, 1x vs 2x, direct mount rings, etc. So nice if you are frequently switching drivetrain configs.
From what I recall, the sram “X-sync” rings are approved and I’m pretty sure those pre-dated the flat top chains. And they may work even if not officially approved. I don’t believe the x-sync rings are officially blessed for use with T-type flat chains, but everyone uses them (and some new bikes even come that way).
Does anyone already have Shimano Ultegra 8100 Di2 2x12 shifters and drivetrain, and can tell me what the difference in brake/shift lever feel is compared to the new SRAM AXS 2x12 Rival and Force brake/shift levers? I was going to swap from the older SRAM force AXS D1 to Ultegra 8100, but now I also need to consider going to the new SRAM shifters instead. I find the SRAM D1 shift/brake levers very UNcomfortable. I have GRX on my gravel bike and those are more comfortable for me. No one in town has any of the new SRAM yet (and probably won’t ever since I live in a college town and they don’t really sell high end bikes). I would need to drive 100 miles to feel what the new SRAM levers feel like and compare them with Shimano, so I’m hoping to hear your opinions instead.
I should add that though it would be a lot cheaper to upgrade the levers only with my current SRAM drivetrain, I’m not overly enthusiastic about the Force D1 groupset I have. I’ve had to replace the rear derailleur under warranty after only one year because it started shifting poorly in the smaller cogs, and the 2nd derailleur is starting to show the same problem. In addition the front derailleur sometimes throws the chain off in either direction. Lastly, the left shifter ate through batteries at a high rate for awhile. That problem seems to be magically fixed though. All in all, my SRAM Force 2x12 groupset has not been as reliable as I would expect. So that is part of my decision. I haven’t heard these reliability problems from other riders, but I sure did experience them. Thoughts?
I have the new red on my gravel bike, which should be the same as new force/rival. I like the feel so much, that i am going to swap my totally working ultegra on my road bike to force. Ive only had the red since december, but its been 100% flawless in that time. Im fine with how the Shimano ultegra (and grx) shifters feel, but there something about the new sram that just feels better, not sure if it the little longer hoods, or slightly narrower diameter, or both…just feels a tiny better. Braking on sram is pretty good. Might be a hair less powerful than shimano, but less on/off feeling. I like both, but its weird having both as they are different. I do like the lever adjustment in sram, easy to do and definitely a benefit. I never thought id be a sram person as ive been all shimano since the 90s, but they got it right.
