Marmotte Granfondo Alpes 2024

Yes what VO2 power training does is to support an adaptation of your heart volume per beat. So pump more volume of blood per beat. This is very supportive for the climbing effort on low intensity. However it also triggers quite some fatigue which you want to avoid to ensure that you can train enough volume (long rides at Tempo) that triggers your endurance adaptation. In the end its an endurance race and not a hill climb race. So my training consists of min & max 1 VO2 TR per week any time during the lead up to the Taper weeks.

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A bit late of a reply but I would agree to try to get as much long days in as possible, I feel personally a few 3-5h rides are really helpfull in improving my all day endurance and importantly if you are not used to those long rides it will show you where you get unconfortable (allthough what works for 5h may not be working after 8-10h).
If people have access to climbs it is really helpfull to actually climb in training, you use the muscles a slightly different way and what is comfortable on the flats may not be as comfortable on 8-10% inclines. I’m lucky enough that I have a few 10-12 Minute climbs near me where I can do shorter Threshold efforts and Hill repeats, and I can swing a few rides to a bigger mountain before the event (perks of living near the Alps).

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A few practical questions. Are front lights really mandatory? What are the 3 neutralizations? Feed stops, dangerous descents?

I didn’t run a light and was fine.

I think it depends on what route they do for this year’s. Last year it was top of croix de fer and descent, then the mollard descent. I think it was just the 2, but I may be having a senile moment.

Mollard descent is nasty, very poor road surface. The rest just take care and you’ll be fine

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Lights are not really necessary, in the sense that they werent checking for them or anything.

I did have two small lightweight lights anyway, and to be fair, there are quite a few tunnels from the top of the Galibier to the foot of the Alp d’Huez where traffic is possible. Also in the morning getting to start it was still quite dark, although there is hardly any traffic (other then all the cyclists), it was definitely safer to have at least a rear light. Lights are only so you can be seen, and you can have a decent light for only 20-30g, better safe then sorry. You don’t need a 2000 lumen headlight to see where you’re going or anything.

There were multiple stops:

  • Top of Glandon/Croix de Fer.
  • Bottom of Telegraph / Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne. (There is also a cheeky little water fountain a little further up the road if you don’t need anything from feedstation but only need water.)
  • Top of Telegraph / Les Verneys
  • Top of Galibier (there might also be one somewhere halfway down the descent, can’t quite remember). There are also plenty of people along the climb handing out water, or pouring it over you (specifically near Plan Lachat, just before the Galibier really kicks up).
  • Bottom of the Alpe d’Huez (by the big roundabout).
  • And of course at the top.

Neutralizations indeed only those two descents, but for this year probably only the descent of Glandon. Might be worth checking if the feedstop is in, or before, the neutralization.

The descent of the Mollard was incredibly dangerous, but I believe is no longer in the route for this year. The other descents are fine, don’t know about the Glandon, but if indeed neutralized just take it safe.

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Hi everyone. Just signed myself up for this forum to join this discussion.

I’m signed up for the event for the first time and this is good information. My training is currently focussed on running the London Marathon at the end of April. I’m using a bit of indoor riding as cross training. After that I’ll ramp it up on the bike.

My experience of these organised events is very limited: I have cycled the Liege-Bastogne-Liege event in 2022. Any idea how the two compare? Cumulative height meters at LBL is a bit lower: lots of short punchy climbs. The overall distance was a bit longer.

I have done the Marmotte quite a few time since 2014. I got obsessed and chased a personal goal time.
My number 1 tip is pace yourself on Glandon. It is far better to be 10/20 watts under paced than to be even 5 watts overdone. People will fly past you on Glandon but you need to just let them go. Either they are stronger than you or they are pacing it badly and you will see them later.
Depending how fast you are I always used 1 litre bottles but with only 1 full at the start and would fill them both up at the untimed stop after the Glandon summit.
Also on Glandon don’t use average power for the whole climb. The descent and flat bits make it much more a full climb of 2 x 7k ish climbs and then a few k drag up to the summit. I would use lap for the actual climbing segments.

From Glandon summit the descent is not timed so that is where I would have solid food otherwise I was liquid carbs but this is personal preference and if you need a pee stop this is the best place.
Everyone says to do no work along the Maurienne valley and it is important to not waste energy but sometime a quick turn will keep the group moving.

I love Telegraphe as a climb, it is steady and generally shaded. Again it is important to keep control of pacing as people generally do the first 5/10 minutes too hard and then fade. The feed stop is not at the summit so keep going down the short descent and through Valloire.

I generally did stop for water at this stop as you still have quite a bit still to go but some people can miss this and refil at the Galibier summit.

The first half of Galibier is roughly 6% but the 2nd half is the toughest part of the whole course and Plan Lachet is approx 2000m altitude so you will notice a power drop off after that just from the altitude. It will almost certainly be hot, steep and pretty miserable. I always fill bottles at the summit as you have at least 2 hours still to go.

The Galibier descent is steep for the first 8k but after Lautaret it is not as steep and everytime I have ridden into a headwind. It is so important to get in a group for this. If you are near the front this will mean either a surge of easing up to get in a group. This descent also has a few climbs in that I always hated them as mentally the next difficulty was Alpe d’huez but they are kickers/hills not the proper mountains.

Alpe d’huez is where you will really find out how well you have paced your ride. The last few k of Galibier are always tough even with proper pacing but a blow up here will be horrible and cost a significant amount of time. It starts steep and eases a little but it never feels like that. I was lucky enough to have my girlfriend pass me an iced bottle at the foot but I would recommend stopping to fill bottles at the bottom. It is very easy to think that extra kg will cost 45 seconds but staying hydrated and cool will save more time than that.

For gearing my fastest time was done with 50/34 and 11/29 but I was in great shape and finished well. You will hardly ever want a harder gear but you will be grateful for something easier.

I paced with power everytime I rode it. Heartrate pacing can work but you need to be very careful not to overcook the first few k of each climb. I rode a very aggresive pacing strategy of nearly 90% ftp but I did blow up a few times and I was lucky enough to tie the marmotte into our summer holiday so I was able to ride in the mountains for 7/10 days before. This let me do an ftp test up alpe d’huez to accurately know my real mountain power and get a bit used to the heat.

For lights I was checked everytime at the Galibier tunnel but just used the little lights they supplied.

It will be quite a different ride to the Liege sportive. The Marmotte is about sustained sub threshold longer efforts instead of shorted harder efforts.

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What I under estimated most was the impact of riding at and above 2000m. Looking at my file from last year I was attempting to ride Galibier at 93% FTP when adjusting for FTP at elevation. Obviously that ended badly where I was riding the last 3km at 180 watts and almost had to step off.

That meant an unplanned stop at the food stop before the Galibier summit to get myself together.

I managed 7’43 on last years longer course including Mollard.

This year the aim is sub 7 hours. If I could manage that I would probably not chase a time again. Was in better shape last year but can hopefully get a good 3 months training in.

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I’m a little late to the advice party, but here’s mine. I did the Tour des Stations Superfondo last year (185km, 6800m of elevation - 7 climbs, 5 were HC). It’s in the ballpark of the Marmotte Alpes. I ran a 48/35 with a 10/36 cassette on a Specialized Aethos. That last cog was a life saver at times, letting me spin up some tough pitches. As for training, looking back through my calendar I started in February with SSB. Builds were all Sustained Power Builds. And specialty was Climbing Road Race. By race time (August), I was sitting just over 4W/kg. Finished in about 12hrs, but enjoyed the scenery and took some nice breaks at the tops of the climbs. As for nutrition, almost all was taken in through bottles. I was shooting for around 100g/hr. I didn’t quite reach that. I also found I took in too little sodium. Don’t ignore that.

I’m going back for the Ultrafondo this year and am generally following a similar training plan/will be using the same equipment.

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I’d echo the sustained power training @newtoda did for Tour des Stations.

Get used to RPE and it’s just 4 big climbs at around rpe 7 (on a 1-10 scale). The wattage will be whatever it will be.

Fuel and drink sensibly.

Let the adrenaline of the event either help you blow up or spur you on on the Alpe :slight_smile: :wink:

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Hope everyone’s training is good well. Personally after a 3 week spell of sickness in December I’ve had some good consistent training since Jan.

Weather is starting to improve here so hoping for more road spins and less turbo.

I was doing the a customised version of the high volume sustained power build the last 4 weeks.

Given I will be doing more long road miles I’ve decided to switch to the masters plan and do the 2 hard workouts Tue and Thur.

My question relates to the fact there is no tempo/sweet spot (Plan has a threshold and Vo2max) in the plan. My own experience of the Marmotte last year was that I spent most of the climbs at tempo pace and toward the end could only manage upper Z2.

Was planning to increase my TTE at tempo to something like 3 * 60 or 4 * 50 mins at 80 - 85% but would need to ditch the threshold workout. Any thoughts?

What is your weekly volume? The higher the volume, the more you can focus on those long tempo rides.

I think proper VO2max work is useful, but make sure it doesn’t end up being anaerobic work. Depending on age and recovery you might want to do these in a block though, rather then every week. That way you can focus the rest of the training on specificity.

I’m doing the Maratona dles Dolomitis this year, instead of Marmotte like last year. I changed my plan slightly to do more sweetspot/tempo. Last year I did mostly lower tempo 80-85, but you have to realize that 85% at sea level is like 95% at altitude.

I just finished my first base-build cycle of VO2max in december, threshold in january and sweetspot in february/march with final week consisting of 3x40 @ 90% and 2x60 @ 90%.

Now I have time for another VO2max block (3 weeks + 1,5 rest), Threshold block (3 weeks + 1 rest) and another final specific tempo/sweetspot block (4 weeks + 1,5 taper).

Where the VO2 max weeks are lower volume with 3 intensity days, and the other blocks are higher volume with only two intensity days.

I hope that doing slightly higher intensity in the preperation at sea level this year will result in being able to ride a sligtly lower intensity at altitude.

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I generally have 8-11 hours per week and can get in at least one long ride of 4-5 hours at the weekend and that’s when I was thinking building in the longer tempo stuff. But I don’t think I could do 2 hard intensity days Tue and Thur alongside this ride.

2 x 60 @ 90% is impressive. Do you normally concentrate 100% on specific zones during these blocks?

I’ve done Maratona twice (5’55 & 5’40 the second time). Certainly for me it rides totally different to the Marmotte. Maratona rides more like a race as climbs are shorter and more intense, Marmotte just a long mountain time trial.

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My training was a bit Derailed from Sickness during December and january, I did a Sweetspot block and now in a Threshold block, after that I will do a 2 Week + 1 Week Recovery VO2 block (3 VO2 Workouts a Week), then there is space to do another 4 Weeks Threshold block and a 4 Weeks Specific Sweetspot Tempo block. I focus on one Type of Workout during those blocks, sometimes i sprinkle in a VO2 styl session into a TH or SS block if I didn’t do that type of work for a long time, but I also have some crits and shorter races during the summer where I hit those energy systems.

I’m still aprehensive about the Galibier since last year the 2 climbs of the Nufenen and Furka up to 2400 really did a number on me and the Galibier is over 2700…

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Yeah, thanks. Obviously it could also mean that my FTP has increased during the preceiding block.

Yeah, preferably yes. I feel that this makes the progressions much faster and controlled if you focus on one zone. Physiologically it is all a scale anyway, so it is not like training Tempo doesnt influence general base or threshold. It allows me to focus on the process instead of individual workouts. But could be personal thing.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion already. I feel like that should actually suit me better then Marmotte.

This is very similar to me.

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I would still train threshold or sweet spot. Regardless, I would probably train the highest range possible that I would allow me to put in some sustained intervals. Anything up to 1.5hrs on the turbo i would definitely be looking at long sweetspot and long(ish) threshold. So intervals 15min, 20min, 30min with perhaps only 30 seconds or 1min between efforts. I don’t think specifically tempo will benefit you unless you’re increasing volume. Sustained sweet spot will give you the repeatability at tempo needed on the day.

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I assume you cannot practice high altitude climbs?

I live near the alps, the first big mountain in the year always hits the hardest and it gets easier after that.

Oh I live close to the Alps. I will have some 1800-2000m climbs under my belt before. Last year I did 2 events with climbs up to 2000m before but the altitude above 2000 was really hard but it was also not my best day…

My training is going okay, have had some good threshold block and doing vo2 now before sustained power / grand fondo speciality.
BUT i am afraid i am way behing schedule. I have not been able to ride outside almost all year because of terrible rainy conditions in denmark. Ive only done about 70 hours (/ but quality )
I am a bit afraid that i have not at alle had enough long rides yet, hope i can still make up for it

What’s your TSS like compared to previous years?