Thanks.
And sorry to the OP.
For some reason I replied to my thread on here.
I tried to fix this and missed one reply. But it’s harder to fix now, so we will just move forward from here.
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Would there be an issue with leaving it as is. Sure workouts may be really hard now, but at some point i assume my fitness/ability will catch up and things will move forward.
I just wont see much progression level change.
It may mean sweetspot workouts are more like threshold, assuming VP over reads so how bad would it be if i ended up with 3x threshold-y workouts a week on LV?
So hard to know. It may parallel the results from training with an FTP that is too high. Could mean that you are getting too much load, but that depends LOTS on your nutrition, recover and that long list.
I just am not the right person to answer that question.
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n=1 but rollers with a flywheel are an improvement that make it feel like the best of both worlds. The main detriment to rollers is the potential lack of resistance (or, well, falling off) and the flywheel helps with that without a mag strip.
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Unfortunately I am where I am with what I have so I’m trying to better understand how to make it work as well for me as I possibly can.
I don’t want to stunt progress by pushing too hard and being in the wrong zone but I also don’t want to undersell myself by making it too easy.
My instinct says put the pressure up a little, so sub threshold actually “feels” sub threshold and stick with that tyre pressure for the rest of the plan.
Given how hard 3x12 @ 85% was with 100psi (threshold 184bpm HR near the end. If I could’ve held on for 20 mins I think I would’ve been up near 90% max HR 195).
There’s no way I’d complete an O/U session like that.
Not always a fun thought, but you may want to perform an actual FTP test on the rollers. AIFTPD is great and works well for my use, but it’s entirely possible that your current FTP from it is not appropriate for the rollers.
Could be time to bite the bullet and see what you can really get on them to make sure you have the right foundation FTP.
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I’ve been doing everything to avoid that 
.
But you may be right. In fact, you probably are right.
Whilst the ftp from a test won’t be my real correct ftp, it will be relevant to the equipment.
Worth replacing an o/u session to do a 20min test?
- Yeah, that seems like a decent swap to me.
- This x 1000
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I wonder if the VP curve accounts for weight. Resistance is proportional to weight for rollers only, and not just rider weight but system ie. bike+rider weight. If not, this is the most likely culpit - OP is a bit heavier than the average bear.
@Trackdom, here’s Chad fielding essentially the same question from 3 years ago:
Get after that FTP test!
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Indeed, all else being equal (same tires & pressure, rollers & diameter), riders of different weight may well experience different results from VP on rollers. I suspect TR may have just done a sample of one, but have not idea if they have done more testing with different tires and rider weights for any given rollers. It would take some effort to get that data and then contrast that for any potential differences.
Perhaps they did that and found it’s close enough to ignore, but I sure think there would be differences at the extreme ends at least.
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Great point and one I considered. I am pretty heavy so the usual 100psi might not play well for me. I though I was using 100psi constantly but perhaps I was a little higher before and the last workout was in actuality lower than previous.
Should probably write it down.
My bikes pretty heavy too at 11kg.
I think I will need to do the ftp test, and most likely the 20 minute one.
That being said, I’m building up an allez and it’s likely to be around the 9kg mark so would it be best to wait and test on that?
Yay.
Really appreciate the help.
A power meter is deffo on my list now. I see 4iiii aren’t too expensive.
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To close the loop on this, the power curve for the Elite Arian rollers is direct from Elite so there is no data on what they used to build the curve.
I’ve seen 4iiii power meter is nit badly priced so I’ll look into that
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I dont think my last response fully closed the loop so i will pop a few more updates here to help in the future if anyone else has similar questions.
I now have a 4iiii left crank power meter.
I’ve just set it up and ensure i can calibrate and connect it up to Trainerroad and my Garmin.
I rode for a few mins just to make sure its all working and sending data to both devices (albeit in flip flop/slides).
Initial thoughts - one day i’ll get a dual sided but for now this will do lol.
I spun the legs up in a known gear up to a known cadence.
On Sunday 93-95 rpm had me at 140-145w using virtual power. Interestingly, with the power meter, 75rpm had me at about 140-145w. And 80 rpm has me at about 160w. I’ve been riding Z2 at about 85-90rpm for 90-120 mins for the past few months, so i was actually putting out 20 odd watts more than i thought i was.
I moved to another gear, again, fairly well known from previous sessions. A few days ago, 95rpm had me at about 200w with virtual power. I didn’t go up to 95rpm with the power meter (flip flops) but low 80s rpm had me at 225 (my currently set FTP).
Its not the quite a scientific test and tonight’s workout will give a better idea of the gap but overall it looks like for me (and my weight, bike weight, tyre choice and tyre pressure), virtual power has been under reading a bit.
I’m not sure just how close to the correct training zones i have been, given its all relative but its nice to have something that’s potentially a little more accurate.
(Or maybe the flip flops have massively skewed the results, or i calibrated wrong etc)
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It seems virtual power was massively under representing my power on the bike, although now i am questioning the 4iiiis power meters accuracy.
Todays session was Seneca Rocks, 3x15 mins at 85%. Since i dont know what my actual FTP is (and i didnt feel like a 20 min test) i went off feel and decided to see where the power ended up.
All 3 intervals at 240w, and not overly difficult. HR at about 80-85% of max.
When i was doing 3x12 at 85% based on virtual power it was much harder. Hr was was up at lactate threshold (90% ish max HR) and it was a challenge to finish the interval.
With the power meter now reading 240w it felt like i could’ve gone for 20, 30 maybe even 40 mins if i really needed to.
Surely my FTP cant be that high. I’ve never had it over 240w (direto smart trainer).
It feels like i’ve just replaced one question with another.
Thursday is a Threshold session, i fear i may need to just suck it up and do the 20mins and see. Whether its over reading or not, it’ll give me a baseline.
By adding a power meter into the equation, you should really just do a new FTP test of your choice. We see similar issues when people swap from smart trainer data to power meter data and any combination of those mixed.
As much as it would be nice to have, power data is not created equal. There are countless threads here with examples of mismatches in data between any combination of two devices. Add in the fact that you are getting “single-leg doubled data” now as compared to “whole virtual power”, and you have more variables that can’t be reconciled.
Do an FTP test (as you mentioned) and move forward with your new power meter data as the “tape measure” and standard data. Also consider creating a new season as the transition between your prior virtual power and your new real power data set.
If you are questioning the 4iiii data, you should contact them for support to see what they can do to help you verify.
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- No, don’t restart your plan.
Use the “Seasons” tools as covered here:
It’s not essential, but since you are swapping from power data A to power data B, your personal records from one may or may not relate to the other. If you aim to track your PR’s over time, using the new power data as the foundation is what you get by starting a new season.
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Thanks
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