I don’t think these results confirm anything, given that other comparable tire groups tested do not follow this pattern. If anything there seem to be more examples that confirm the opposite - wider is faster for the same tire model. But I don’t believe there is a general trend, casing construction, tread thickness, and compound make as much difference to the result as just width.
The Pathfinder Pro shows a disparity to this argument, as do the René Herse slicks.
On what surface? Because there’s plenty of evidence on tarmac that you start to get slower above 32mm, (for road specific tyres) so it comes in to play depending on surface.
I would have thought throughout this thread the major point is that you cannot make absolute statement about something that is clearly subject to a lot of variables, and yet, it keeps happening.
The gp5000 S-TR is another that gets slightly worse rolling resistance as it gets larger on BRR.com, and ergo obviously slower as it gets wider one you layer in the aerodynamics.
There is a still a lot of room for this entire conversation to develop to allow people to select the best tyre for their particular scenario. It is simply not true that wider tyres are always faster.
“When adjusting all versions of the Grand Prix 5000 S TR to the recommended air pressures, we see the 32-622 version of the Grand Prix 5000 S TR is the fastest rolling tire.”
It doesn’t matter though, these minor differences in CRR are completely irrelevant in a gravel context.
Nope, I’m definitely familiar with it. I just have never used that particular comparison tool. But it is common practice to provide citations when you provide data…especially f you are going to accuse others of “cherry-picking”.
Also weird how proponents of wider tires get accused of “cherry picking” data but others point to one test on a drum as “proof” of something.
Yeah, it really isn’t and this has been demonstrated.
I’m not certain what you think you have proven when citing data road tire data on a drum when we are discussing offroad tires on dirt…but I’m now convinced. I am going to encourage everyone to only run 40’s from now on.
Damn shame my tire budget is blown for the year and I’ll just have to make do with my Thunder Burts…hope I can keep up.
I don’t think narrower tyres are faster. I haven’t tried to prove that. I’ve just pointed out the flaws in absolute statements that wider tyres are always faster.
There’s a big difference between cherry picking evidence to make a wide reaching absolute statement, and cherry picking evidence to discount a statement that ‘all evidence points to x’… because in that scenario, ANY evidence is enough to prove the point incorrect.
You don’t need to find a statistically representative sample of the entire tyre market to draw a general conclusion.
Your priority for good science should be to control for sufficient variables as to get a high confidence interval for your hypothesis. Comparing a Race King to a Maxxis Refuse, or a Gravel Thundero against a Maxxis Rekon tells you nothing (other than Maxxis tyres are garbage, which is a surprise to exactly nobody).
Nobody is saying ‘wider is always faster’. They are saying ‘more supple casings are generally faster’, ‘wider tyres are generally faster on rough terrain though there is a break point that depends on surface and speed for aerodynamics but this break point is earlier than is intuitive’.
I have enjoyed and may probably continue to enjoy this thread, but it does seem we’re starting to go in circles. I’m going to put some race kings on my revolt for this year and just ride it. Then after the fall or at some time during the year, I will decide whether they are faster or not where I ride and how I ride. I’m willing to just give something a try without having ABSOLUTE SCIENTIFIC PROOF that it will be the fastest possible tire for every given day. If I had a nickel for all the rides I’ve done not optimized in my days, I’d have a lot of nickels. Will let you know if I get faster or slower.
As noted above, the screenshots are from the general table on BRR. You can use filters to limit the number of tires that you see at any given time.
As I mentioned in my post…I wasn’t trying to make a global statement about anything other than replying to the comment that you quoted in your post… “no data supports a 40mm tire being better then the same tire at 45mm” and providing data that suggests otherwise and the opinion of the author/creator of that data providing their opinion that “for the same tire” in larger sizes they’ve consistently found it to roll slower.
My apologies for not citing the BRR website in my post, I assumed since it’s the most frequently documented external website in this thread, it would be generally obvious how one might find that data for themselves.
Great…then just quote them directly. No need to include me in the quote.
As I noted, there is a rich irony in accusing people of cherry-picking data and then using cherry-picked data to back up the accusation.
The limitations of the drum testing BRR has done are well known and there are clear issues extrapolating that data to gravel. Those challenges are then further reinforced by the overwhelming amount of data showing that wider is faster on almost every type of gravel.
Man I am trying to read through all this and I think we lost the plot a little bit
Feel like we gotta just ride what we want / have. I mean if you think 40s are faster ride them. If you think Racekings 2.2s are, then ride those. Wonder if the frame clearance you currently have is impacting your opinion
Anyway if you are concerned about going fast, I assume you are racing. So if that is the case you should be happy if you are on the “faster” tire size and your opponents are not.
