I see that you weighed at least one of them. Did you weigh both? I just got a set and they are 587 and 604 grams. Spec says 585 so I’m wondering how we have such a variance between us. I know we’re not supposed to care about weight anymore, but I’m also worried about quality control at Schwalbe.
2 Likes
I weighed both of them. I think the other one was 564.
I’ve had the same experience with Maxxis, Vittoria and Perelli. The weights will always vary and I wouldn’t worry about it, but I understand the feeling.
3 Likes
Interesting finding while checking RC 2.2 fit on my bike. There is quite a bit of difference with similar internal width rims. I have tried the tires with 3 different rims (IR 23 mm, 24mm and 24.5 mm ) and one of them provides 4-5 mm more clearance than the other two
What’s the internal width of the rims they’re mounted on? I’m running a 48mm tufo thundero on my checkpoint in the back, and it’s pretty tight.
I forgot that BRR did a test too, thanks. It looks like BRR measured approximately 1% change in CRR per 1 degree C change in temperature, which is a bit less than Tom Anhalt’s 1.36% per degree C sensitivity. It’s broadly similar though, and it might be affected by drum/roller diameter, I guess.
Curious that you have the more aggressive tyre on the back and the less aggressive on the road - Usually this would be the other way round. I run TB 2.1 front and 50mm near slick on the rear.
Front wheel bite in the corners is v nice, back just follows.
Exactly. I’ve already had a few instances of tests that seemed identical, looking at average speed and power…
But once it is actually in Aerolab you can start to pull apart the differences.
When I went deep into all that stuff for my first article on aero and crr testing (Aerodynamik-Tests – Aller Anfang ist leicht… – Torsten Frank . : : . tfrank.de – Das Blog)
I found three sources. Tom Anhalt’s blog, this article here: Jerzy Ejsmont et al.: Influence of temperature on the tyre rolling resistance, International Journal of Automotive Technology 19, 45-54 (2018).
and this source: Recumbents.com (MARS projects - Crr vs Temperature) and (MARS projects - Crr vs Temperature, p.2))
If some wants to read German, it’s in this section of my article:
Umgebungstemperatur und Einfluss auf den Rollwiderstandsbeiwert
From these 3 sources I found
crr diff a 1,36 % per degree Celsius from Tom, 1 % / °C from Recumbents.com and 1,1 % / °C from the Automotive Journal article. So all in the same ball park. Which makes sense since all compounds differ a bit, too.
2 Likes
Dylan Johnson has a rebuttal of sorts to the Nathan Haas podcast bit above. Starts at 56:20 and gets a little convoluted but raises some of the same points as here with some more info on testing he’s done and others as well.
2 Likes
I was looking at gravel/XC tires in the 2.0"-2.1" range, that have yet to be tested on BRR (i.e. large tires for those that can’t quite fit Race Kings). There are a lot out there but very few that have the potential to be fast. So far, the only ones I could find are
- Schwalbe G-One RS/RX Pro 50 (RS is next in line on BRR, RX is the knobbier version)
From the post above, these come in below 50mm, which is probably too narrow.
- Vittoria Terreno XC Race 2.1 (Lachlan ran one of these in the front at Unbound)
According to Vittoria, the Terreno XC is their fastest XC tire, the ranking goes Terreno>Peyote>Mezcal>Barzo. I would like to see how this one performs. I found an old review that said they measured up to 54mm which would be pushing it clearance wise for me.
I’m currently running 2.1 Thunder Burts. Any other tires to be aware of?
I had the Terreno XC Race 2.1 - it is a terrible tire. Very slow, side knobs for whatever reason make it stubborn to lean. I took it off after a hundred miles.
It has the same basic issue as the Terreno Dry gravel tire - the tread is very thick, probably twice as thick as a Mezcal. I have a picture somewhere of the two tires cut apart showing the difference I’ll see if I can find it.
Maybe consider the Rene Herse Extralight Oracle Ridge or Fleecer Ridge - 48mm/55mm but the RH sizing is inconsistent. I’ve head the 48mm is large and the 55mm is small. BRR has only tested the Endurance casing and based on it’s performance the EL casing should be around as fast as the E25 Race Kings.
1 Like
I had the Fleecer Ridge standard casing on 29mm internal hookless rims and they were 55mm. Bit of a pain to mount but I liked them.
1 Like
I had the Terreno XC Race 2.1 - it is a terrible tire. Very slow, side knobs for whatever reason make it stubborn to lean. I took it off after a hundred miles.
It has the same basic issue as the Terreno Dry gravel tire - the tread is very thick, probably twice as thick as a Mezcal. I have a picture somewhere of the two tires cut apart showing the difference I’ll see if I can find it.
Thanks. That’s disappointing but not entirely surprising.
Maybe consider the Rene Herse Extralight Oracle Ridge or Fleecer Ridge - 48mm/55mm but the RH sizing is inconsistent. I’ve head the 48mm is large and the 55mm is small. BRR has only tested the Endurance casing and based on it’s performance the EL casing should be around as fast as the E25 Race Kings.
They indeed measure smaller than the Race Kings on BRR, so that’s a nice option. Interestingly, the 2.25" Thunder Burts and Racing Ralphs also measure smaller than the Race Kings.
Edit: For yet to be tested tires there’s also the G-One Speed, but confusingly the larger sizes only come in the Speedgrip compound, which probably means this one is slow.
Quick point RE Nathan Haas: his bike sponsor is Colnago, and his bike cannot fit MTB tires at all, probably cannot even fit 50 mm gravel tires… Consider that for a moment. Also, for elite riders at the front of the race, in the lead group, they must be able to go with attacks to not get dropped. For amateur gravel racers, the race is more akin to a group TT, where average speed over the entire course determines the result.
6 Likes
Except the data shows again and again that the added energy expenditure is negligible.
His position is very “old school roadie” and simply not based on anything expect feel and perception.
4 Likes
Oh yeah, I agree, perhaps my reply was not clear enough! I was pointing out that he has a slight point. But the testing done by Chad Haga was silly, and seems to be based on the worst possible case scenario for bigger, heavier, tires, a shortish steep climb! Hahaha… and they also did not use a “fast” MTB tire like Race King or ThunderBurt, they used Aspens… Dylan Johnson did some more testing recently, and he is going to put out a video soon on comparing various size gravel tires and Race Kings, although he used Pirellis?? Anyway, the upcoming video should be another interesting data point.
2 Likes
Yeah, Chad did only two runs and on different days. Then for Nathan to say he hates bad science but base his opinion on that as a test…I don’t know. It was not a compelling argument.
5 Likes
My Instagram has been linked a few times here re the tire testing (off road Chung Method) I am doing so have started collecting the posts in a Highlight section here:
I also went ahead and collected most of the testing links in a blog post linked below so they are easier to look at together. The questions on this thread have been pretty good so I am adding a Resource section… and leaving comments open if anyone has questions and/ or wants to roast me haha.
6 Likes