I’m not saying there’s a good reason…other than I feel I’m going too fast, and need to get my speed down.
I race my cross bike, Focus Mares. I dont think the bike is the issue though…I’ve races my Emonda as well with exact same issue. I’m so dar away from the bike being the limiter haha.
1 Like
I spent my time as a kid through early 20’s as a downhill ski racer and think that’s the reason I’m pretty comfortable cornering. While I can’t say for sure what “it” is that makes someone corner faster I can say:
- Take a higher line to start.
- Emphasize putting weight on your outside foot and hand (be in the hooks).
- Keep head in line with bike (don’t drop to the inside) because you need to…
- Keep shoulders and hips more or less perpendicular to bike centerline (don’t rotate inwards).
- Look at the exit.
edit: just wanted to add, crashing hurts like a mother******. Many broken bones and er visits. Sometimes roadies yell because someone is doing something dangerous (or that could needlessly cause a crash). Ive been yelled at by really good riders and looking back it was good they did. I learned. The problem is I think there are people who yell/say stuff that is wrong/not helpful and/or they do it because they are scared. If that’s the case I make sure they know what’s up. Further, the reason you don’t have this off road is just because you can’t ride in a group the same way. Trust me, ride like a wanker next to someone down a technical trail and put them in danger and you will get yelled at by the mellowest of mountain bikers.
100%…You should never brake IN the corner if you can avoid it…it straightens the bicycle up and moves you outside your intended line. Brake before you enter the turn.
1 Like
THIS. And this is exactly why you can’t watch the wheel in front of you, or think you can get better by following better riders…you end up entering the turn before the apex.
I assume you mean inside hand there though yea?
@Abe_Froman If you are cornering to the left then weight would be on the right foot and more on the right (outside) hand. I think weight more on the foot helps to start. If your body is square then you probably don’t need to think too much about weight on hands.
I’m confident you’ve got that backwards. You can take outside hand off the bars, and corner pretty well just pushing with the inside hand.
Outside foot obviously yea, but hands only the inside matters.
1 Like
As long as you don’t lean/place your upper body to the inside of the bike and/or rotate shoulders in the direction of turn and/or drop head to the inside which will pull shoulders…you can probably do what ever you want with hands. If you are cognizant perhaps it will stop your head, shoulders, hips rotating (if they in fact are)…pretty hard to advise w/o seeing.
Ok now you’re making me really rethink what I’m doing lol.
Normally when I go into a corner…I get all my weight on the outside pedal, and push the bike down to create lean by pushing down/forward on the inside bar. I try not to do much of anything with the rest of my body…
Sometimes I wonder if I would be better served by shifting weight forwards a touch and really exaggerating the weight on the inside bar, to get the bike leaned over further, and put a bit more weight on the front tire. At this point I’m just talking cross…but I assume the technique essentially transfers…
1 Like
If you’re braking in the corner you’re more likely to wash out than if you went through without braking at a higher speed. Or have your line go wide as Power13 mentioned.
Your tires have a fixed amount of friction/traction in any given road condition and it requires traction both to turn and to (de)accelerate.
1 Like
Yep I know haha, I’m aware of this even in the moment. I’m fully aware I’ve got to straighten out my line as I’m doing it…buf still decide to lightly drag my brake to scrub some speed in corners…even when I’m already entering on a better line than the person in front of me, and I’m at a lower speed. I’m not doing it with any goal in mind other than just bailing on the corner honestly.
I know in my mind this is idiotic. I see the line of people in front of me…I start wider, clip the apex tighter, exit further on the outside. I know I have the same or better tires than everyone else, so there is no reason to think if 80 people stay upright that I should any issue. It’s just nerves. I’m normally a very rational person.
I really just need to get a feel for what leaning a bike at speeds feels like. I’m used to hard cornering at 15mph lol.
1 Like
Eh. It’s not that irrational. The physics is complicated (ish), it’s inherently somewhat dangerous, and you’re fatigued. You know that you should do various correct but counterintuitive things but it’s still scary. I know that public speaking or asking someone on a date isn’t actually dangerous but it still terrifies me.
If you happen to live near a velodrome you may want to try track racing. It’s not turning but it gets you used to leaning the bike over (especially if it’s a steep banking). Also it may help with group riding since 1. noone around you can slam on the brakes and 2. hanging just off the back to tailgun doesn’t work, there’s no corners to make up the difference and you just get dropped instead.
Mmmm…if all the others are faster through the corner than you, how can you be so sure your line is better?
Maybe you just suffer from concertina effect, because you hang off the back to start with. Have you tried cornering when near the front of the group?
Also I think you said you’re a taller person - it might be that you simply cannot turn as tight as someone smaller. Your wheelbase is longer, your centre of gravity higher. To turn as tightly as a shorter bike, you need to lean more. Maybe too much? I actually think that if it feels unsafe, it might just be unsafe, and not just something in your head.
No no…I assure you it’s not a height thing. I’m literally just entering the corner at a slower speed than most, and dragging the brake mid corner when I feel I’m going too fast. I mean I will literally see a gap open up beween me and the wheel in front of me before entering the turn.
Also…at the slower speeds of a cross course, I routinely will enter corners faster than the person in front of me, go around the corner with more speed, exit with more speed, and get on the gas sooner. It’s much easier to see this in cross as you see how much space is betweeen riders pre and post corner.
I dont think this is a height, weight, or technique thing. It’s literally my brain putting a top speed limit in place for me in corners right now…
Oh to answer your other question…yea I’ve done this at the front as well; same issue. Every corner…a couple feet open up leading up to the corner, then I’ve got 3-5’ to get back on the wheel at the exit of the corner.
For me it was helpful not so much learning to lean the bike, but working on steering through corners rather than counter-steering. When steering (pointing the front wheel in the direction you are turning, rather than towards the outside of the turn and leaning the bike) the bike can remain more upright, you can pedal through turns without clipping your pedals, and you can maintain speed through the corners to minimize the accordion effect and the need to sprint out of every corner. This requires you to pick good lines and look toward the exit of the corners so you don’t scallop (lots of corrections) your turns. You also need to practice using your body to protect your bike in tight quarters. Go on the grass with with some friends and set up a little crit course with cones or bottles maybe 15 yards apart and practice banging each other around, going slowly at first, and get used to the contact. I also would say stay close to the front rather than back. It’s much safer. And always look way ahead.
If you have a left hand loop in an industrial park or other low traffic area (or sufficiently large parking lot) you could try riding laps with your right hand off the bars so you can’t reflectively brake. And as you get more comfortable bumping the entering speed up. Helps if it’s also a downhill turn so you can (eventually) get somewhere approaching race speeds going into it.
Hmm that’s interesting. I had to think about it, but I definitely countersteer on tight corners, and I definitely steer on corners I can pedal through.
Regarding bumping drills…I am 100% comfortable getting bumped…doesnt phase me in the slightest. Some cross races where I double up races…and one I dont care about results…I’ll start on the front line and purposely fade back into the pack before the first corner to get practice bumping people and passing in tight quarters. THAT skill has at least transferred to crits haha
I thi k the next time I have a 30/30 type workout scheduled…I’ll go to a Costco or Targwt parking lot, and just repeatedly get up to 25mph or so and zip around curb corners in the parking lot. I think an hour of that should solve a lot of my issues.
2 Likes
One drill that might help @Abe_Froman (or anyone with cornering concerns)…start on one side of a residential street at a speed you think you can do a 360 with out hitting brakes (going gutter to gutter). So end up going the same direction same side of street. Go a touch faster repeat etc…point is you will really understand how your body is positioned, how your weight is positioned and how all that affects the speed you can do the 360. Once could probably do this on grass as well…
1 Like