How did you 5w/kg+ riders make it there?

I must first say that I haven’t tried some big calorie overload diet and I am not sure I would want to gain weight if I wasn’t sure that my W/kg would stay close enough. On the other hand I am not afraid to put my diet out there, it is fairly easy to describe.
Morning - big plate of oatmeals with fruits, nuts, seeds and 10% fat greek yogurt, some peanut butter. I am not a slow eater and it takes me 45 minutes to eat it.
Midday - soup and main course in an asian restaurant (usually meat and rice for the main course)
As a snack just after lunch I have some dessert from home usually.
On the bike in the afternoon I consume 1/3 to 1/2 of calories burned in sugary water.
For a dinner we usually have a double portion of pasta or a big omelette.

That’s basically it. When I was running and consuming calories during I was constantly hungry in the evening. After, when cycling and consuming only small amounts of calories during I had to have snacks in the morning and afternoon (like 2 slices of bread with ham). But since I added proper on the bike fuelling I am not hungry at all.

It’s very simple you need to eat more. Put olive oil on your meals or something, i am your height but 88kg so quite envious of your problem :slight_smile:

Do you feel bad at that weight? Do you want to gain weight?

Obviously, you could gain weight. No one is immune to the laws of physics, but we’re constrained by our physiology. Contrary to popular belief, the motivation to train, the propensity to enjoy exercise, levels of hunger, preoccupation with food, compensatory non-exercise caloric burn, etc. are all genetically determined to a large extent. People who are “naturally” skinny tend to have smaller appetites and move more subconsciously. People who are “naturally” heavy tend to have larger appetites and move less subconsciously. The variations in pure metabolic rate between people at similar body weights are marginal at best and typically not observed outside the range of 100 calories per day (barring hyper/hypo thyroid).

If you truly want to gain weight, you need to eat more. You’ll probably feel full all the time for a while, and then you’ll adjust to a new homeostasis. If you’re not gaining weight, you’re not eating enough. Some people can compensate for additional food through NEAT to the tune of 1,000 calories per day, but that just means they would have to eat even more to gain.

Personally, I was “naturally” skinny until the age of 15 when I decided to pursue powerlifting. At that point, I had already been lifting for three years, and although I was well trained and muscular, I was extremely lean at 54kg and around 170cm at the time. It was extremely hard for me to gain weight. Even stuffing myself constantly, I felt like the scale would not budge. Then, I started tracking my food and realised that “stuffing myself” subjectively only looked like 3,000 calories per day on average, which isn’t a lot for an active kid. I felt like I was eating a lot, but I really wasn’t. Fast forward 5 years, I had gained 34kg. I was full every day, all day, for those years. It was very unpleasant, but I became very, very strong. At 20 years old I decided to not stuff myself anymore, and I naturally settled at a very lean 78kg, which was 10kg less than my heaviest, though no conscious “cutting” but simply not eating beyond fullness.

When I got into cycling, I decided to lose weight, and I went from 78kg to 62kg in a little over a year. Bad idea. Took a lot of effort, and my body did not like losing that much muscle. I kept fighting to stay that light for a few years, but eventually I decided to stop. I got back to some more gym work in combination with cycling, and I now weigh about 75-77kg. I’m very lean, but I don’t need to pay attention to my diet at all. I eat when I’m hungry and stop when I’m full, I just look like I do. My body “likes” being muscular and lean because of the stimuli I give it through training and lifestyle.

So, to my original question, are you actually looking to gain weight? I spent 5 years doing it, and it really isn’t all that fun. Do you think you’d perform better if you were heavier? I’m currently trying to work as hard as possible both on the bike and in the gym in order to achieve a certain goal come June 2026. I want to do 400w for 20 minutes and get back to deadlifting 300kg. I know that I need to stay on top of recovery because of my training load, and although I’m not intentionally trying to gain weight, I really don’t want to lose weight. Losing weight would, in fact, compromise performance for me. My goals are very specific, but I don’t know if you have similar aspirations. Is it a problem for you being that light? If it is, you know what the solution is. It’s really hard to gain weight with a smaller appetite while doing endurance training, but it is not, by any means, impossible.

That’s not a lot of calories, or many actual meals.

I typically eat 6 (what would be considered) meals a day, totalling 5500-8000kcal, depending on training load. I typically burn around 16000kcal a week on the bike.

Try adding two extra meals. It seems like breakfast is taking you a really long time to eat - for example, I always start with the same first breakfast (500g 10% fat Turkish yoghurt, 160g qvarg (11% protein yoghurt with minimal fat), 30g sugar and 150g blueberries/lingonberries), which takes me about 5 minutes to eat. A couple of hours later, I’ll have second breakfast, which will be 800-1000kcal worth of cereal, porridge, toast or sandwiches. Lunch follows around midday, with second lunch 1400-1500. First dinner around 1800 and supper around 2100. Every meal is in the 800-1000kcal range, and then I fuel on the bike at 100-140g an hour carbs. I typically ride 14-15hrs a week.

I think you would feel a lot better and be faster on the bike with an extra 10kg bodyweight. Your watts/kg is unlikely to go up much, but by virtue of increasing your lean mass, you’ll increase your FTP and you’ll be faster.

63kg at 190cm is a BMI of 17.5. I realise that BMI is a very basic measure, but you’re close enough to average height that it’s a good indicator and according to that scale, you are substantially underweight. At 73kg, your BMI would be 20.2, which is the very low end of the normal range.

I am happy to help with meal plans and training to promote muscle growth if you want it. As it is at the moment, it’s clear that you’re just not eating enough and it’s an easy fix.

Looks more like a power clean and press :smiley:

Yeah, but technically it’s a power snatch since the weight never rests upon his upper body.

I have very similar eating habits to you. If I don’t get ahead really early in the day, there is just no way I’m catching up on calories later on.

It was intended as a power snatch and in the end it was ugly as f**k but very funny! :rofl:

That first breakfast is the most important one for me. If I substitute the 500g Turkish yoghurt out for the more typical, lower fat variants, I just feel ill later.

First breakfast - big whack of fat and protein (55g and 40g respectively)

Second breakfast - big whack of carbs.

The rest of the day is less strict.

I’m 186cm and I used to be 70-72kg most of my life. Until I started doing gym training about 5 years ago and pretty fast went to 76kg.

When I train more and eat a lot of extra calories I never gain weight just recover better. Many cyclists are afraid to eat more which might limit their progress. They might think my weight is stable now, if I eat more it’s going to go up but it’s more complicated than that.

I find it easy to add calories with raisins and rice. I put them in my breakfast and evening meal and have raisins as an extra snack.

360w FTP this summer if I still was 72kg it would be the magic 5w/kg but there’s no point there’s not many hills around here. And definitely feel better at this higher weight and being strong.

Yup, I echo this. Unless you’re actually under weight to the point where your body cannot maintain homeostasis, eating more likely will just mean better recovery. Calculating your daily expenditure by taking your BMR + non exercise activity, exercise activity, and thermic effect of food neglects the energy needed to adapt to training. Obviously, if you intentionally eat beyond satiety all the time, you’ll likely gain weight, but we’re not talking about that. Eating to hunger when carrying big training loads will often just lead to better performance at no cost.

I’m nowhere near 5 w/kg so I’m not sure I’m even allowed to enter the chat, but..

I have gone the other way around from Calle and Jon. I’m not a powerlifter and had done very little sport in the previous 7 years before picking up cycling 4 years ago. I’m 200 cm tall and was 98 kg.

Oblivious the kgs started dropping and the watts went up in the beginning (I miss starter gains..). I’m now at 84 kg and stronger than ever (335w FTP), but I could not imagine it would do anything good to my power to weight ratio, to drop even lower.

And when I say stronger than ever, it’s not only in FTP. It’s also in the feeling when racing against others.

The point: I think the two guys are right when they say it would benefit you to add some kg.

I would summarise my own arguments as follows.

If you’re at a weight that makes you unable to train, race, or enjoy riding in the conditions in which you wish to do so, you may want to consider making a change. As someone who’s been on the very light side in an area where being light is not much of an advantage, I’ve come to the realisation that being heavier and having more raw power will add to my enjoyment of the sport. In addition, it requires far less micro managing of diet and expenditure for me. My body obviously prefers being a lot more muscular than I can be as a lightweight climber, and fighting that for no added benefit in terms of racing results or riding enjoyment seems counterintuitive to me. However, as I alluded to before, if I lived in Andorra, I might find that sacrifice being worthwhile.

Take a moment to consider what makes the sport fun for you. Make a plan that optimises those aspects of riding and training. If you love winning hill climbs, you may have to sacrifice some raw power and suffer a bit more on windy group rides on flat terrain. On the other hand, if you’re more drawn to breakaways and solo attacks, opting for more raw power at a heavier weight might be right down your alley.

Also consider what impact it has on the rest of your life. The reason I stopped trying to maintain 62kg body weight was not because I cracked mentally. My mom asked me to open a jar of pickles – and I literally could not do it. I had gone from being able to bench press 170kg to not having the grip strength necessary to open a jar. I found that being light was not suitable to the rest of my life, and since I’m not a professional, I have to part take in more activities than riding. Unless you get paid to ride bikes, I think it’s necessary to consider all aspects of your day when deciding how to progress training and diet. If gaining or losing weight negatively impacts all hours not spent on the bike, it’s probably not worth it.

No, I don’t feel bad! I am used to that weight and I feel actually great. I’ve stopped caring about comments on my weight 20 years ago. From what you describe, I know I could gain weight that way. But that is not the way I would like to gain weight. I want to feel good and stuffing myself wouldn’t achieve that. I actually like food and I already feel I eat more than is enjoyable sometimes. But I know I need it so I eat it. I don’t want the eating to become an activity I am not looking forward to and I don’t want to feel bloated all the time.

I’ve listened to some elite bodybuilders describe how they diet works and of course I know I am not immune to gain weight if I will do what they do. But I am not willing to go that far I am afraid. In general, as I said, it would be nice to gain some muscles and keep almost same w/kg. And I might try harder during winter when I plan to lift more. But not the way you describe you did it in your teens. I am happy with my health and performance on the bike. Of course I want more and since I had been there I know it is possible. As I don’t plan to race having higher absolute watts would just mean I can ride faster on the flats. How much would one want to sacrifice for that?

@JonInSweden You are doing more on the bike right now than me (hours) and thanks to your higher FTP much more in calories burned. Due to some higher intensity and recovery afterwards I am now in the 11-15 hours range (sometimes lower sometimes higher). But the calories burned are mostly in the 9000-12000 range. My lifting is now more of a physio therapy and focused on correcting problems I have than anything I would need to really track or account for.

I know, the breakfast takes a really long time :smiley: But it is rolled overnight oats. I need to chew them somewhat. At least for the breakfast I can theoretically do a calorie estimation (I’ll get back to you when I do). Maybe it is the meals I eat but I am not in a mood for any other meal in the meantime. On the bike I am in the 80-120g/h range which will be similar when we account for your higher FTP.

Don’t worry I know my BMI and I now what most people think about it. They are not shy to tell me :wink: I don’t have numbers to prove it but I think I eat more than enough for what I do. It is obvious I don’t eat enough to gain muscles but as @calle already said it might be much more than I want to eat. Again, I will do the numbers at least for the breakfast.

Thanks to both!

Well.

In 2018, I peaked at 70kg and 350w FTP, at 52. In 2019 when I first posted to this thread, I was still at 350w, but 75kg.

Fast forward to now, and after three years of almost no endurance training, I’m back down to 75kg from a peak of 81, and, after fours months of trainer rides and rowing erg sessions, 3.87 w/kg.

I don’t see myself doing more than 6-7 hours of endurance training a week split between erg and bike, and really nothing over an hour. 5 w/kg won’t happen again.

5 w/kg takes decent genetics and a lot of time spent training. I was doing 15-18 hour weeks during my 40s and early 50s to hold that level that I had in my 30s. If training isn’t you part-time life, the big power numbers probably are not going to be there.

Right now I just want to get back to 4 w/kg, and then see how much further that can go on very limited time.

What has been said here about how to cut out junk calories is on the money. Eat good food, don’t eat too much of it, and train as best you can with what time you have.

I’m not trying to do you down in any way shape or form - I’m here for the same reason as everyone else. I just want to get faster on a bike, and hopefully my experiences can help others in some way, shape or form.

I have been almost skinny as you. At 19, I was 77kg at 203cm. BMI of 18.7. That was off the back of doing national level Taekwondo. Very fast, loads of reach, but no power.

The route to gaining a bit of weight is really straightforward, and I promise you, you will get faster on a bike but also feel better in your daily life. Being fit is amazing, but being strong is just as, and if not more important. Sarcopenia is a serious issue for many in later life, and the longer you wait to add some muscle to your frame, the harder it will be to add it.

Another point to remember is that muscle is the organ of glucose regulation, and more muscle results in more stable blood sugar, which boosts cycling performance too.

The reason, I would posit, for your lack of appetite between meals, is lack of metabolic demand. The hunger resulting from aerobic exercise is quite different to that from strength training. You may only burn a few hundred calories in the gym doing the actual lifts, but the increased metabolic demand that follows is not only much larger, but last for over 24hrs.

If I were coaching you, I would encourage you to consider gaining 10 kilos over a fairly length timescale. This additional, quality mass would improve your cycling performance substantially, but would also simply improve your quality of life. Even now, as a 41yr old, 101kg cyclist who doesn’t train with weights very often (more in the off-season), I am measurably 2-3 times as strong as 19 year old me in photo below at 77kg. That kind of real world strength is just really useful.

Dude, that is legendary stuff. I don’t mean to call you an old man here, but 5w/kg at 52 is impressive as f*ck. I wanna be like you when I’m that age.

I know all the reasons some muscles would we useful. Now or later (I am similar age). So I agree with you on that front. I guess I am not ready to stuff myself. But if it would come more naturally as I (hopefully) increase my lifting during winter I am not against that. I’ll start by adding small snacks before sleep, I think that is possible already. If the caloric demands raise with lifting I expect to also up my intake. I would be fine with gaining 2-3kg.

Thanks!

You honestly don’t need to stuff yourself to gain quality weight. I didn’t cycle yesterday (have a TT race later, so took a rest day) but I’m ridiculously hungry this morning. Three rounds of breakfast so far, totalling 2250kcal. Lunch will come in a couple of hours too. My hope is to hold 400-405w for 30 minutes this evening (my power output on the flat isn’t as good as going uphill).

To gain muscle sustainably and with minimal fat is quite easy. Just overeating won’t work - you may gain muscle, but much of any weight gain would be fat. Creating the stimulus for muscle growth is key.

A couple of 45 minute, full body weight training sessions per week would be plenty to give your body the stimulus for growth. In terms of eating, add the calories to cover the acute demand from the training session (300-400kcal) and then add another 400-500kcal a day to cover tissue repair and muscle growth. Aim to gain 0.5-1.0kg per month (which should be very straightforward as you have a large frame with plenty of space to grow).

Remember, you can still gain 27kg and be within what is considered the ‘healthy’ BMI range. Typically, a human is 40% muscle by weight, but I would hazard that for you it’s lower (maybe 30%). So given that you presently have 19-20kg skeletal muscle on your frame, just imagine how much faster and stronger you’d be with 30kg?

In terms of how it relates to the bike, your drag coefficient won’t go up in line with your weight. 15% extra weight doesn’t equate to 15% extra drag. But I’d bet my left nut that your FTP goes up by more than 15%, meaning not only will be faster on the flat, but you’ll likely be quicker up hills too (once your taking into account rolling resistance too).

Your bike will then also be a smaller percentage of your system weight, making you faster still.

Finally, I believe that a bit of extra muscle (especially in the upper body) gives you better protection in a crash, and helps with fatigue resistance over longer rides and off road.


I totally understand how daunting it is to shift your mindset towards food and weight gain if you’ve been a certain bodyshape for a long time. But whilst genetic predispositions and environmental factors will always play their part, the human body is a remarkably adaptable machine and if the training stimulus is changed, the body changes with it :smiley:

I certainly don’t believe that my W/kg will improve with weight gain as I am not limited by force production. And if it was that easy to improve, every GC rider would be in the gym! I might be willing to sacrifice small loss for increase in total power and muscle mass.

A home gym is long on my wish list and it could help me with this goal. Thanks for the info and encouragements.