I picked up from your post about not just “noodling” and the truth is I never feel fit for much more than noodling outside of my 2 or 3 hard sessions in a week. Don’t perceive I’m in a calorie or carb deficit, but do you really think it makes the difference?
I raced collegiate to upgrade to around a 3. Cat 3 is maybe when I felt most “competitive” as most local crits I entered I felt like I had a chance at being on the podium. I did win races during that time. I live overseas now, but when I was in the US I was racing as a 2 on the road and able to podium at local training crits. Bigger road races are where things got more difficult.
Podiums and wins in gravel / mountain bike came more easily. Maybe in some sense they are less tactical? I’m probably the kind of person that is better at training than racing.
By noodling I mean that my endurance rides were almost always unstructured. I never concentrated on staying in Zone 2, which is something I do in my training now. Most of my old endurance rides I probably averaged high Zone 1 / low Zone 2. Rarely looked at power during the ride, just focused on time in the saddle.
Historically I have always done intervals on Tuesday/Thursday. “Endurance” on Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. I often do recovery rides Monday & Friday now.
Looking back I can tell I was in a deficit because I often bonked. Or went hunger flat. I’d finish rides ready to eat everything in my kitchen. I just thought that was part of the experience in cycling. I figured as you got more fit, that feeling would go away. Now that I consume more carbs during my rides I rarely ever get that feeling. If I do I assume that I messed up nutritionally.
If you’re not feeling like that, you’re probably doing okay too? I’m definitely not a nutritionist or anything, but I’ve been trying to learn more about it. I really do think my riding is night and day different, particularly those Zone 2 days, now that I’m focused on consuming carbs. If I’m riding, I’m taking in something. Even if I don’t feel hungry on the bike.
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This is what I am getting at though, I rarely feel like I have the desire to keep to zone 2 for say a 4 hour outdoor ride. I just ride flitting between RPE and looking at the power, knowing I really should be pushing a little more, but feel too tired to contemplate adhering to zone 2 regardless.
Eating on the bike feels marginally better but doesn’t make it a game changer from wiped out to feeling fresh with loads of power on tap.
Eating reasonably well off the bike doesn’t seem to change this.
I’m sort of stuck between knowing my 2-3 hard turbo sessions per week keep me where I am, and not having the trust in myself that if I dropped one of those perhaps and instead turned up for a long ride a bit fresher, that I would actually push the pace a little more and keep it in zone 2 rather than dropping off to active recovery.
What % are you shooting for when you’re thinking about Zone 2 rides? If I’m indoors and just mindlessly watching something, I usually shoot for 60-64% FTP. Outdoors if I’m feeling fresh and the weather is nice, it’s usually a higher %. But it’s a sliding scale. Maybe in my 4th week of a training block my Tuesday interval session feels harder than normal. I’ll ride 60% Z2 on Wednesday to help prepare for Thursday’s intervals.
Friday would be a recovery ride… and if I’m still feeling a little beat, I’d do low Z2 again on Saturday. But then Sunday I’d ramp it back up. Still Z2, just a higher %.
I guess to me it sounds like there’s some excitement / freshness missing from your rides. I’m usually really excited for my Z2 days because they’re way easier than my interval days. If you feel like something isn’t working, why not try to change it up a little? “Fitness” can be such a personal journey, it can take a while to learn what really works for you.
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On a lot of days, I feel tired and barely hit just over 50% FTP. A good day would be no more then 65% and that would def feel a tough day by the end. That’s average power not NP, NP usually in the 60% region.
I probably need to look at my nutrition some more.
If you struggle to ride at 65% ftp… I would suggest definitely looking into nutrition, or recovery. It sounds like you are overtrained/under-rested.
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Yeah, I’d consider tracking your calories for a week or two. Maybe first start by taking some time off the bike, get some really good recovery, and then get back into training + tracking. Just as an experiment to make sure you’re not in a chronic (big) deficit. If you find you’re not in a deficit… I’d say it’s too much training.
Just be careful to not get too caught up in it. I know people that start tracking calories, and then it turns into a bad habit.
50% is a recovery ride, that should be easy. Like, just the weight of your legs falling on the pedals easy. Not having to think about it.
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Hi all, I am currently sitting at 69kg-s, 177cm, 4.2w/kg, definetly can loose some weight, but I am qurious what was your body weight when you hit that 5watts mark and how long does it took you to get there, your height number would be appreciated too. I am trying to understand how instrumental is it to be in that 10 percent body fat range to get to the magic number and beyond, or if many of you have hit that plank with a couple kg-s on top of that
This is my experience on the matter. I’m not saying this is the only way, but it is what I did to reach 5w/kg in about 9-10 months of structured training.
I started structured cycling training at 23 years old, and I came into it as a proficient runner (60-90 miles per week year round). I have ridden bikes for transport my whole life and worked on and off as a bike messenger, but before this, I had never done structured training. This background in running and cycling obviously built a decent aerobic engine.
My first FTP test on Trainerroad (ramp test) was 3.2w/kg (218w at 68kg/150lbs and 178cm/5’10). This was in September 2022, and by the end of May 2023 I tested my FTP at around 320 watts at 62kg/136lbs using a 20 min test. I stopped using Trainerroad in December when one of my running buddies offered to let his friend (a cycling coach) train me.
In terms of training, I started off on a high volume TR plan and rode that wave for about 3 months with good improvements, reaching just over 260w FTP at 65kg/143lbs, so just over 4w/kg. I was happy with the platform, but since I was offered free coaching I thought I’d give it a try.
My new coach had me doing two hard sessions per week and 4 aerobic rides. Weekly volume was about 17-20 hrs, all inside. He insisted that I really made sure to go easy on those 4 aerobic days, and I made sure to do so. I don’t think I went over 65% of FTP for a single aerobic ride in the following 5 months. One of the hard sessions was Vo2-training (5x5 minutes of a variation of it), and the other one was threshold or SS work (3x10-20 minutes at FTP or slightly above or longer stints of SS, maybe 2x40 mins at 95%).
I fuelled every hard session at a minimum of 100g/hr of carbohydrate, often more. For long aerobic rides I did anywhere from 60-90g/hr, and rides under 2hrs I usually just had a Snickers bar or two.
I lost 6 kg during this process. No, it did not just “come off” as a result of me fuelling my rides and my body finding it’s natural weight. I actively counted calories and made sure to be in a deficit. I trained in the morning, and before the session I’d have about 100-200 grams of carbs depending on the ride time. Afterwards, I’d have a protein bar and a fruit, and then I’d have a decent lunch and dinner. I prioritised carbohydrates at most meals due to the high training volume, but I still made sure to stay in a calorie deficit. I don’t find losing weight particularly hard since I don’t have a massive appetite, but getting down to 62kg/126lbs at 178cm/5’10" was not all sunshine and rainbows. I ended up at around 4% bodyfat on a caliper test, so probably 6% on a dexa scan, and this is too lean for almost all people, me included. For context, I currently train 8-10hrs a week on the bike (pretty unstructured), do some running, and I weigh 64-65kg with no conscious calorie restriction. I’m still very lean, but I don’t look like a prisoner of war (as some cycling legends have put it).
Conclusively, my experience is that reaching 5w/kg as quickly as I did requires both intense training and dietary restriction. This is not to say that it requires overtraining and starvation, but some sacrifices likely have to be made. Additionally, I recognize that I had a massive advantage coming into this endeavour considering my extensive background in endurance sport. There are probably a dozen different approaches to cycling training that would have gotten me to 5w/kg eventually. Some people have an easier time building aerobic fitness than others - we all have out genetic advantages and disadvantages. I, for example, can’t build muscle size to save my life. I do also think that I could reach 5w/kg at my current weight over a slightly longer time horizon, and that it would be much more sustainable.
My tips for you (and perhaps future me, if I decide to do this again):
Train hard, train a lot, but constantly ask yourself if the volume is sustainable. Doing 10hrs per week for 3 years is much better than 18hrs per week for 6 months.
Be conscious about your weight any body fat, but if you have the time, don’t rush it. Getting to 5w/kg will be easier if you’re not carrying around “extra” body fat, but 1 kg of weight loss can probably be avoided by getting in one or two months of more training instead. Again, getting to the goal quickly may require greater sacrifices, so get clear on what’s most important.
Lastly - this is my experience. There are other ways to do this, and I am very aware that my way may not be the best. I hope no toes were accidentally stepped on, and if they were, please forgive me.
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53.1kg and 45min power 284W. I am lean but I don’t restrict calories. Just healthy eating.
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I don’t think its something you should “try” to do. Being in that kind of fitness requires a lot of what I’d call maintenance. Lots of bike volume and good eating habits. 5w/kg should be the natural result of your lifestyle and not some commitment to yourself.
To elaborate. I was at 5wkg for a year. I was riding a ton. I was happy to ride a ton and didn’t have any other things i wanted to do. I’m a little older now, in a committed relationship, working on my house, doing other past times that arent on the bike all the time. These are all things I want to do instead of ride my bike. For a long time I’ve been trying to get back to my glory days, trying to lose my 5 extra pounds and trying to get back to previous riding volumes. Never feels worth doing. I would always think, “do i really want to spend 6-7 hours out on my bike today? I have groceries to buy, a house to clean, and friends to drink beer with.”
So yeah I kinda realized hitting those numbers arent that important if my internal compass isn’t naturally drawing me towards it. my .02c i guess
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This is my experience too. I could get back to 5w/kg if I tried, especially since I’ve kept on riding and keeping on top of my fitness maintenance since I ramped training down. However, to your point, I have better things to do.
I run my own business, and it takes a lot of time. I have an Alaskan Husky, which takes even more time. At this point most of my riding is not to exercise myself, but my dog. Sure, I could probably ride 18 hours a week, work full time, and exercise my dog 3-4 hours per day, but I don’t want to. I’ve lived that life before, and it’s not worth it to me. I’m never going to be a pro cyclist, and whether I ride my Omnium Cargo with my dog at 4w/kg or 5w/kg will not affect my enjoyment of it in the least.
Nice post. Amazing how often this comes up and how “simple” it really is. Ride a lot, mostly easy, and a couple of times per week really give it gas. Voila, you’re faster.
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And if you wanna get really fast, choose really good parents!
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This was really well said. This reminds me a lot of when I did the Polarized Build plan. 1 VO2 day, 1 Threshold day and the rest all Z2. Made for some great results and thinking about returning to that style of training again because of how simple and effective it is, in part because it allows for great consistency.
I also believe Kolie mentioned on the EC podcast that if somebody never had a race to plan for and simply just wanted to get fitter (which happens to be me) that he would be really curious what a years worth of this training would do. I’m guessing this implies he also see’s it as effective.
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Maybe it was in this forum (maybe even this thread) or maybe somewhere else entirely but I seem to remember someone had made a predictor chart that suggested the amount of volume someone would need to do to reach a certain W/KG. Does anyone recall this, could they share the link to it? Tried googling it but not seeing what I was looking for.
I’m around 5.2. I was an elite level junior and stopped at 19. Picked it up in Nov 2019 during COVID. I’m 36 and 66kg.
I got to 5 on two years of zone 2 only with occasion Zwift races. I love volume - my average since early 2020 is > 20h per week, mostly inside. I stopped improving at that point and needed to start structure, and saw some gains but pretty much hard going.
I didn’t read the whole thread but +1 for experience in youth and volume. No surprise.
But, if I can be provocative. I have never met anyone in real life who is as consistent on sleep, nutrition, and rides as I am. I think that is important.
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I stopped improving at that point and needed to start structure, and saw some gains but pretty much hard going
How does your training/structure look