How did you 5w/kg+ riders make it there?

Training
375

Incredibly I read almost everything in this forum, I will report a little now what is going on with me, and how it will be from now on, I’m from Brazil, I practice cycling for about 3 years, 2 and a half years with power or less than that.

When I started a 3 years a go I was 86 kg and hit a ftp of 282 if I’m not mistaken, so today I am currently hitting 74 kg and 347 ftp.

Ok, I had a coach from training peaks, I didn’t pay a monthly fee or anything, so we ended up broken and I’m currently without a coach, doing some things on my own in terms of training.

I’ve used traineroad a few times, today I try to help a friend from Germany train through TR, and I’ve seen that there are some training plans.

I don’t like criterium racing very much, but I do very well in Time trial and gravel, events over 100km to be exact.

Well what I mean is, I have a few races within a month, and then there won’t be any more, I’ll have about 3/4 months to just focus on training.

I am currently training 18,000 km / 590 hours.

I want to reach 5.0kg / w . so I will try to lose 4kg I have already marked a nutritionist, but in part of training just following the TR plans, what would be the indications?

sorry for any disagreement in my english

376

I lowered my Zwift race weight :poop:

377

I think we need a thread for people like us! No div 1 anything for me but I’ve been racing for 30 years and am at about 280 watts for a 40 k tt too. I’d like to know if anybody in our point in life has ever increased their FTP 30 or 40 Watts. I think it’s a lot different with young guys in their first few years of training.

378

There are quite a few comments about riders expressing disappointment because they aren’t where they think they should be despite riding consistently.

Maybe you’re not at 5 w/kg but I’d wager that if you do ride a lot you’ve probably got more skills and abilities in your locker that are just as useful.

We are all built differently and we all have different commitments to overcome to be able to ride our bikes. I average less than 6 hours per week but I’m at 4.8 w/kg which is way north of some of my club mates that average 10 hours. I always feel that if I could do 10 hours per week I’d be about 5.3-5.4 so we all have those same frustrations too!

5 w/kg is a nice goal but as long as you feel you are progressing then that’s all that matters. Sometimes you just have to change things around to force adaptation, I don’t think a lot of people like going super hard, sometimes you need to.

379

I’m always sceptical of reported FTPs! An awful lot of people out there who have a ramp test number that they would struggle to hold for 30 minutes. Or who are still reporting their lifetime best FTP that they recorded in a single test 3 years ago and haven’t come close to since. Or who just straight out lie. And that’s before you get into all the possible sources of error from power meters that don’t get zeroed regularly or are just plain wrong. A friend who I would be highly confident of beating over any distance or terrain on a bike doesn’t have a PM but has a smart trainer that’s recorded him pushing 400W for an hour during a Zwift race! I would guess that’s out by at least 100W based on his outdoor performances.

Nothing you can do about anybody else’s numbers, and there are plenty of people who are going to be jealous of your 280W.

380

Ha, meanwhile your power is about my goal. Everyone is always looking upwards. (I’m your height and weight)

381

As a mere mortal I feel 5w/kg is always going to be unattainable.

At 98kg even with a 5% weight drop would require a genuine 370 FTP just to get to 4w/Kg - which is one of my ‘aspirational’ medium to longer term goals.

Getting to 5w/Kg would mean hitting a 460 FTP at the reduced weight, which is completely unrealistic at my age when accounting for other lifestyle demands.

My interest in this thread comes from the process that people have adopted to get to the 5w/kg mark - there seem to be plenty of good take aways relating to predominantly consistency, application and thoughtful training plan formulation that can only help someone like me improve - albeit at a much lower level.

Thanks for the insights :+1:t2:

382

That’s my aim too and why also have this thread tagged, thanks all. I’ve managed to get the weight down to your possible target weight and it appears to be settling at that level… 92-93kg. I’m sure if I watched what I ate and did a little upper body exercise I could achieve 90kg, but I enjoy my snacks/ sweets, just one of my life enjoyments. Rather do what I do and look for that extra 10W from my legs!

I am though interested in to what I can achieve ftp wise and where my ceiling is. Have both a Quarq power meter, which gets zero’d before tests and also the power meter on the smart hammer trainer (calibrated monthly). So I believe in the numbers as they read the same ± 1% of each other. I’m looking at a target of 375W and after the winters training schedule I hope I’ll get close, though I may plateau before then.

As for getting to 460 FTP I agree, completely unrealistic for us both.

383

I’ll second the skepticism on ramp tests. Although Xert and the Strava power curve are pretty close for me (they are both 5w over my best Hour of Power), I’ll do a flat-out hour every 8 weeks or so, just to keep my FTP number honest. I am an old time trialist, so it’s an odd sort of pleasure for me, but yeah – the true test is to hammer it for an hour.

And for what it’s worth – a multiple-time national champ in this area pokes fun at me (in a friendly way) for how much I train at 53. He rides his bike a few hours a week. Then he craftily sucks wheels, reads the moves, and is always in position to launch his 1400w sprint (at about 175-180lbs, far over his old race weight of around 150). That’s why he’s a former national champ, and I’m a guy who, for almost 40 years, has always been in the break but never on the winner’s step. Race sense and skill, they matter.

384

375W would be a hell of a lot of power on a flat course though! Especially if you get yourself some nice cross and head winds.

385

[quote=“cartsman, post:379,
topic:11045”]
Nothing you can do about anybody else’s numbers, and there are plenty of people who are going to be jealous of your 280W.
[/quote]

Well I hear you there! At 85kg and good flexibility, flat TTs are my best event and I went 54:25 on 280 watts norm at our state 40K and I wonder where are all these 350 watt FTP guys? They should be wiping the floor with my 280, right?

Still, like everybody I wonder…wouldn’t another 30-40 watts be fantastic! LOL :wink:

386

Well this one’s not at 350W yet and may never get there! Though he’s on the other side of the pond, enjoying his one and only mountain bike, doing the occasional Audax and the odd rare Zwift race (probably <10 in 2 years)…in which I’ve yet to get near the podium :slight_smile:

I’m also one who doesn’t train to race, we all have different reasons for training. Maybe some could wipe the floor if they raced, and maybe they wouldn’t, as some have mentioned before it’s not all about power. Even TT, it’s position, cda, pacing and probably far more I wouldn’t even know about but sure you would. I have twice done the Zwift Bologna Time Trial, first attempt my NP was 333W, second time tried different pacing and NP was 317W. That second attempt was 10 seconds faster and that’s messing with just one variable.

My FTP, probably like majority of others on here, is one created now by the Ramp test and only used for setting the correct training zones. When I switched from the 20 minute test (Zwift to Trainerroad) my FTP reduced from 310 to 299, but I’m only using it for setting levels for TR workouts so no issue for me. I think the honest hour test as mentioned by @RobertK would probably fatigue myself and affect my planned workouts if done on a regular basis. Regular hour FTP rides, Kudos to you… At some point I would love to verify that figure and wouldn’t be surprised if it was at least 5% out and maybe more. One day I’ll find out, I’ll have to be mentally strong for that attempt.

We all know the the ramp uses 75% of your last minutes power to give you a virtual hour power (FTP), where in real life no two people would be the same and that 75% could be easy 76.45% for one person and 71.432% for another. I would agree a lot more people would be below the 75% and would put myself there too… but majority of the time that FTP given works for me on TR workouts and when it doesn’t I always have the intensity minus button!

387

Non humble brag post:

Aged 48 (in Nov :sob:)
5w/kg in peak season at 55kg and 280w based on 30’ TT Friel protocol

  • ex cat 1 in 90s
  • must be close to 4 w/kg off the couch
  • do sweetspot most days from January (3x12 building to 3x30’) through winter with periodic recovery as required - 8 h/week
  • when weather improves move to longer steady rides plus VO2 (110% ftp 4x7’ or 3x8’). 10h per week
  • training for mountainous Euro fondos

This formula works for me year in year out

388

Yup - once we reach a certain level, we immediately look to the next one!

389

Whilst I know that no two riders are the same, I do ride regularly with two legit 4.8/9 w/kg guys who are year on year at the pointy end of Haute Route events. I see what they have to put in to achieve these levels and my head simply spins. Nothing but respect for those amateurs who can plan and commit to such a lofty goal.

Put simply, I don’t have the time to train like they do so I’ve made the conscious decision to use what I have, better than I currently do.

Currently I sit around 4.4 w/kg at 315 FTP and 72kg. This year I dropped that down to 70kg with no noticeable drop in form or power. My main goal is to improve my strength endurance. Couple that with positioning on the bike and better nutrition, I think I can get quite a bit of return for my 315 FTP and 4.4 w/kg.

390

IMO some may be overvaluing 5 w/kg; its not the end all be all. I’d much rather have a legitimate sprint, great 1 minute power, or just a solid FTP. Those things are probably more effective to win races.

For me, I have to go all in on 5 w/kg (and am still 15w off at race weight). That’s great for races with elevation but around here they’re becoming very sparse, and I sacrifice my sprint and pop for that. TBF, I never had a sprint or 1m power, and I never won anything focusing on those. Being a climber is probably my best shot at winning, but if it weren’t I’d be a fool to focus on it.

Its probably a 5:1 ratio or flat races to climbing races, and I’d take a rider at 77kg with a 350 ftp (4.5 w/kg) with good pop over a 60 kg / 300w @ 5.0 w/kg. Power to weight doesn’t mean much on the flats, and heavier guys would be crazy to sacrifice lower mass to get there.

391

What percent of FTP do you ride your 3x12 or 3x30 workouts?

392

were you doing a lot of short power for crit racing? This year I focused on short power part of the curve and it has killed my fatigue resistance. Which is in-line with what some top level gurus like sebastian weber would preach. At 69 ml/kg/min at your age, you have a very good aerobic capacity, perhaps too high of anaerobic contribution pushing down your longer efforts.

393

Given sweet spot is a pretty narrow band it’ll be somewhere around 91-93%.

394

Good insight however, over the years I’ve done a lot of everything and it doesn’t seem to matter. I always end up with similar power duration curves from year to year. I think it’s more to do with the nature of my job and how I have larger than normal blocks of days off to train but, longer than normal blocks away from the bike.