I heard someone at a local bike shop say that ‘car rims are hookless’, yeah, but you need a machine to put the tires on the rim. I had a friend in college that tried to put tires on rims by himself, and I think he nearly killed himself doing it. (There comes a point where saving money just isn’t worth it)
The bead on car tires are thick and stiff. I would never like to run into that kind of over design in a bike tire. I had enough of a problem being tasked as a noob to mount a tubular tire.
So would I ride a hookless wheel setup? It sounds complicated, potentially fragile, and too dependent on pressure, so I’ll pass. I have a set of carbon wheels, and they are ‘hooked’, and if they can pull it off, WTH can’t more manufacturers. Hookless just seems too risky because bikes can encounter all kinds of terrain, and it’s just not worth it to save the companies that sell (multi) thousand dollar wheel sets a few bucks. Have the prices of hookless rims gone down (any) to offset the possible medical and reputational issues when they fail?
Car tires are stiff, have steel belts, and have steel wire in the beads. Car tires also stay on the rim when deflated and you can drive on a flat safely to get to the side of the road.
Road bike tires are completely different. The comparison is not even worth making.
100%. I don’t think there are any foldable car or motorcycle tires (I could see there being some emergency use foldable motorcycle tires though.)
I think if someone made a non-foldable steel beaded road tubeless tire some of these issues would be avoided, but I doubt there is a market for those.
You’d have to think that this is costing Zipp e.t.c in sales, I was in the market for a new set of wheels, I was looking at Zipp 404 as been using 303s on my gravel bike and been happy with, but went Hunt Limitless, but the main deciding factor was, they are hooked
(68kg and running 28mm so should have been ok with pressure)
I doubt it. It would only cost sales if bike shops started discouraging customers from buying hookless rims. Most people are just not that well informed or even consider the risks that much. Not long ago I met a meathead on a ride who didn’t know about pressure limits on his Enve 45s, and even after he learned of them, continued to run 90 psi because he felt under 70 would be too slow. I told him that he’ll put himself in the hospital, but I doubt it took. I don’t know if it’s where I ride or what, but I encounter many bros with pretty blasé attitudes about any safety considerations.
Also, I would still choose a well made, well QCd hookless rim over a crappy hooked rim from the likes of Extralite or similar, if they were selling hooked rims. Maybe I am cocky, but I am pretty confident in my ability to determine if my setup is safe to ride.
And not everyone is within the parameters of weight, tire/rim width, and pressure that might cause a problem. For plenty of people, it’s simply a nonissue.
Well since teams were almost certainly running wider widths than 28’s AND the UCI also sent out an advisory notice to not run 28’s on 25 rims AND teams were also likely running lower pressure than normal, this statement seems to miss where the crux of the issue lays.
Those of us early adopters were test pilots. I’ve got my own scars and it was on an Enve hooked rim. Been on the phone with Enve many times back in the day and they didn’t do a good job of advising me.
It’s more about safety margins of both rim and tire. Tires have gotten better but they are the weak link even with hooked rims.
If you’re using reputable rims with well tested rim-tire combinations and are careful to keep tire sizes and pressure within design constraints, they are not scary. But care must be taken.
Automotive tires should not be compared to bicycle tires. Standards are very different as are construction methods. The debate between hooked and hookless though is all fine and each one of us as consumers can and often does have an opinion. Bottom line is that when I am spending my own money I will make the choice I feel best with. For myself and myself only there will not be hookless rims in my wheelset collection, at least until there is a singular standard that all wheel and tire manufacturers adhere to. I just don’t feel comfortable, consider it too risky and dislike the limited selection of tires.
I fully believe that you are right and that statement is accurate.
That’s also why I don’t want to have any hookless wheels. I’m a beginner-level recreational cyclist. I simply don’t have the expertise and experience to ensure that I am ALWAYS within the bounds established by all those conditions you just listed. So the best way for ME to stay safe and happy is to stick with hooked wheels.
It‘s not as complicated as one might think.
My roadbike came with Zipp 303 firecrest hookless wheels. I put conti 5000str on them in 32mm for comfort and speed, which I will probably never change, and put something between 4-5bar pressure in.
That‘s the same workflow as with my old hooked rims, just different numbers…
