which one would be? Zipp 25 + 28m tire? Is there another one known?
Anything with a 25mm IW and less than 4mm difference to the stamped tire width (not measured width).
This is all well documented.
Because he already bought the wheels and now is willing to defend them to grave…in this topic.
If one is making a wheel purchase decision today, I see zero benefit in choosing hookless. One can just choose a hooked rim and not worry about various compatibilities. Or one can run a non-tubeless tire if they desire.
If I had made the mistake of buying hookless I would:
Run only 30-32mm+ tires depending on inside diameter, use a run flat system, and stay well below 72psi - more like < 60psi.
If I had hookless rims I would sell them and get something hooked. That’s how little I trust them. That’s my opinion.
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For road, maybe…for gravel, I’d be fine with it (and just got hookless ENVE AG28 650b wheels to test in advance of Unbound).
If I was running 23mm IW and 28mm tires, I’d intellectually feel fine with it…but I also know that emotionally, I’d wonder if I would question it every time I went into a corner hard.
That just isnt true though, is it? There is a difference between “no benefit,” and, “I believe the pros dont outweigh the cons.”
Hookless will be a shade lighter, and will also give a wider internal width for a given outer width. I believe if’s stronger in the event of impacts as well.
you’re partially wrong. I did my research and decided to go hookless KNOWING the drawbacks. I read Giant’s protocol and found it solid. They’ve been doing this for +/-5 years already.
The wheels were considerably less expensive than the competitor at that time, something around 30% less.
So I’m not trying to convince myself AFTER purchasing. I did this BEFORE. 
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Yes, I mean that only for road. If riding gravel/mtb with tires much wider than the rim, it’s OK.
But my Aspero is my road and gravel bike. I have three wheel sets for it. Even my aero road wheels see light gravel use, though. They are hooked Light Bicycle WR50, 25 mm internal, 32.5 mm external. Used with GP5000 28c (non-TLR) measuring 31.0 mm to meet the aero guideline of 105% rim/tire width. That’s something that’s a no-go for hookless. It works quite well with hooks though.
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It sounds like you believe the marketing. How much does the hook weigh? 5 grams? Doesn’t the rim have to be made thicker to be made stronger? We’ve yet to see stronger rims play out in road.
So far, we have cheaper molds for the manufacturers and a few theoretical benefits for consumers with a lot of caveats about tire pressure, tire size, tire fitment, and a few blow offs.
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Yep, hey we removed the hook to save some weight! But we added that weight right back to the rim to make it stronger.
Sure, maybe they can have a wider bit to protect against impacts but it seems that your only going to need that riding gravel or mtb where hookless is already used and functioning just fine.
No, no, no…remember de Gendt hit a rock, which is what caused his rim to break and tire to come off.
I mean, this is all theoretical for the most part. 1 guy on an internet video does not form a consensus…
My personal view is that at best…hooks are an insurance policy that only come into play when a tubeless setup is done extremely poorly.
They’re like the lawyer lips on dropouts. They serve no function if you actually put your wheel on…
If you believe this is categorically unsafe on hookless, that’s a lot of faith you have in some tiny little hooks.
Was the update to 29mm for 25mm IW exclusive to hookless? Hooked and hookless tables were the same previously, but I can’t find any concrete information that the 2023 update applies only to hookless. It just seems to be discussed in the context of hookless, I guess because most/all mainstream 25mm wheels seem to be hookless.
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I forgot to mention that I’m running latex tubes. You’re right that it’s not a recommended combo for tubeless, hooks or not.
If two wheelsets have the same weight, strength and aero but one had hooks and the other didnt - then the hooked rims would be catagorically better.
I do see what you are saying, the rims could be made with slightely less material so could be lighter and the manufacturing process is easier so they could be cheaper - but the removal of the hooks have no user benefit and I would rather the limits of wheel design were pushed in non-safety critical areas.
In fact, in the case of aero, hooked rims usually shape the tyres better. You dont really want a higher internal to external wide ratio for aero.
Not certain this is correct. Whether marketing spin or not, the industry is saying the opposite.
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I’m probably guilty of taking one mans word as proof for that - but the below statement rang true for me:
“Josh writes: …hookless tends to lead to a nice visual transition from rim to tire, but what I’ve seen in the tunnel is that this rarely translates to faster setups as the rims generally end up being a bit too narrow to recapture air off of the leeward side of the tire once the system sees any yaw. As hookless rims must have narrower bead seats than hooked, the solution here will be thicker beads which will make for less smooth transitions at the rim/tire, but will allow the rim to exist out in a spot where it can recapture flow more effectively. I imagine that the fastest hookless setups will end up being essentially hooked rim shapes where the space under the hook is just filled in. Of course this will negate some of the weight benefit unless the beads become hollow or foam filled… this also feels like a nice way to improve impact performance but I’ll leave that to the manufacturers.”
If you want safe and seamless with current tech - then you need hooks like his 3T discus wheels.
Anyone here that has had a tire blow off a hookless rim…how hard was it to mount?
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I have “strong” hands from my various careers and working in a bike shop for a long time. That being said my gravel scenario, the tire that blew off was very easy to put on. I think almost anyone could have done it without tools.
I have Pirelli tires on it now and I can “sometimes” get the last bit on by hand but sometimes I need a lever to pop the final bead on.
A slight tangent to your question as I’ve never had a blow-off, but I’ve always been able to get GP5000s on my wheels by hand.
I’ve never managed it on my hookless rims. They’ve always needed that last reassuring flick with a tyre lever.
Similarly, I’ve never had a new tyre seat without removing the valve core (with a compressor @ 120psi line pressure)
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