Have you gotten a coach? Do *I* need a coach?

At 25% over FTP, the ramp test draws heavily on your VO2Max and anaerobic ranges. However, this is an area of the power curve that SSB doesn’t really train. SSB is more about developing your aerobic base and muscular endurance. So the ramp test may be under-reporting your FTP as compared with the 8 minute or 20 minute tests. If you can hold threshold for longer, it is likely the 20 minute test in particular will get a nice bump.

As you progress into the Build phases, and start doing more over-threshold work, it is likely the results from the ramp and 8 or 20 minute tests will converge.

Stick with the program!

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Just wanted to add some different perspective on when FTP gains happen (to some answers above). Of course it’s individual and depends on many factors but here is was Coach Chad said:

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Yup, I bookmarked that post originally. His comment mirrored that from others that reported more FTP change in SSB than other phases.

It will vary for each rider.and their prior history, but we will see different vhamges.in each phase.

I was already riding about 20miles a day and fitness was good for starting out on my own. I decided to get a coach and learned alot and got a ton of questions answered on racing and cycling in general. I was mainly doing zwift “junk miles” and non structured and my coach introduced me to zones and base training. After 2mo I realized his knowledge was limited and besides having some actual race experience I was passing him up and I noticed my fitness started to decrease on top of getting bored doing 3hr rides in zone 2. It did help with accountability because when I missed a day he acted like he was the one paying me :rofl: overall I would recommend a coach but do your research first otherwise you will “outgrow” your coach in a few months

Now I’m on trainer road doing sweet spot base and fitness is better than those long slow rides and works good since im a time limited cyclist

Whether to get a coach or not depends heavily on personal factors, such as financial ability and whether you are the type that like to engage with another person in order to come up with a training plan.

If you are getting dropped in crits and group rides it could very well be because you are lacking punch (unless you are being ridden directly of the wheel in sustained efforts). A good coach will be able to asses you with some objectivity and tell you whether what you are is helping you towards your goals and what your limiting factors are.

No doubt, my greatest improvements have been while I have been training structured based on a customized training program by the coach.

Not to disregard anything that’s been said before, I think what a coach might give you over TR is a more individualized plan and more individualized feedback.

Whether someone needs those things is a different question. Before getting a coach, I’d be very honest with myself about consistency of training, diet, and sleep. If you’re nailing 95% of stuff 95% of the time (as a minimum), and aren’t seeing the progress you want, then maybe look at it (assuming, of course, that finances aren’t an issue). If not, i’d nail what I was already doing first.

Having said this, if you think you’d benefit from the personal approach and all that entails, then all you have to lose is cash, i suppose.

Not sure I agree. I rarely get a massive boost from build. I would say more of my gains have come from base. Some of that is because i spend more time in base, but it’s also because base will improve your FTP and not destroy you in the process.

If you are consistently doing the work, a coach is probably not going to make you faster.

Also I would be pretty damn excited if I gained 5W in 10 weeks and 25W a year.

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Interesting Alan Couzens’ tweet today in reaction to another post:

In 2016-2017 I self-coached to maximal fatigue and lots of unplanned recovery, however the reward was the highest fitness level achieved in my short 5 years of road cycling. Loosely followed the plans in CTS The Time-Crunched Cyclist but didn’t have the discipline to follow the lower-intensity aerobic endurance workouts they prescribe.

Bought a trainer and started using TR plans. Faced a different set of issues, and to oversimplify was still generating too much fatigue and that got me to 89% of self-coached fitness. Tried several things, and a year ago tried a off-the-shelf plan from a long-time coaching company in Boulder and oversimplifying again, it got me to 93% without generating much fatigue. Better return on my training investment, and to borrow from the tweet above I was maximizing fitness with a productive level of fatigue. #FreshIsFaster

I’ve said this in other threads, the difference between the TR and three other off-the-shelf plans I have purchased: versus a TR HV plan those other plans place more emphasis on lower-intensity aerobic development. And counterintuitively that delivered some all-time short power PRs. Win win.

Long story short, I hired a coach from the Boulder company and couldn’t be happier. After 5+ months its been an excellent experience.

Which brings me back to @RecoveryRide remark above, as I could have continued using the off-the-shelf plans from that other coaching company but having an individualized plan has been more beneficial. Reiterating the tweet above, it has done a better job maximizing fitness at a productive level of fatigue.

That has been my unique experience. My advice is to not be afraid of experimenting, for starters there are a lot of reputable coaching companies that offer reasonably priced off-the-shelf plans that take a different approach. Find what works for you.

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I’ve had a coach.

If you have a work/family schedule that allows for consistency week to week and month to month AND the coach is knowledgable IMO/E it’s the best way to spend your money in this sport.

If your schedule is highly variable week to week and month to month I just don’t know. There’s only so much anyone can do with say being gone 4 days in a row most weeks for example (me).

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I’m in my 4th year with the same coach, and my experience was pretty much what I was told to expect:

a) Year 1 - a discovery year about me and him, and us establishing our relationship and my learning performance baseline
b) Year 2 - we tried reverse periodisation and increased carbs to fuel workout. My FTP plateaued, my weight went up although I got slightly fitter.
c) Year 3 (last year) - we worked together and went back to a traditional periodised plan, he listened to my thoughts on carbs which was to reduce them and move to a “Training Low/High Protein” diet to lose weight slowly - which he then advised my on expressed in macro’s - as I can ride well on less carbs than others, and that I felt overly heavy. We went with it together, with 7kg weight loss I raised my FTP by 0.75wkg and reached 4wkg for the first time in my life, looked forward to Hills I used to dread as I learned how to pace them, and was much stronger and had much more endurance on the bike.
d) This year - after starting base with an FTP of 3.93wkg - I’ve maintained my weight and an moving on strongly on a repeat of my year three plan.

My takeaways for the OP; I and a lot of people overestimate their initial ability; It takes time, regular training and effort; you need to form a two-way open & honest relationship and feedback with your coach and work together as a Team (my coach refers to “us” and “we” in training and racing); you’ll need to adjust and - to answer your question - a decent coach will help will all aspects of accountability am motivation plus the benefit of their experience of training, nutrition etc - this doesn’t mean you can’t continue to explore other resources.

I reckon I’m at a point now where I’ve learned enough and together with resources like the TR forum I don’t need a coach BUT he takes away the thinking from me - I reckon if I ditched my coach I’d get busy at work/family enough to be detrimental to my training. With my arrangement, he thinks, plans, listens, tells me when to rest or push and provides an objective external view. I just do, and I believe thats half the value.

Paying for a coach may just be the best upgrade you can pay for, but you need to put in the effort and time. even a coach will tell you that an athlete who wants to dribble away their Money with little effort, missed sessions and are not taking it seriously is as demotivating for them as it is for you, and hopefully that coach would do the right thing and suggest you stop rather than take your cash, if you cannot apply yourself.

Not sure all that helps, but take from it what you will…

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you said it yourself, you can tolerate sweetspot and threshold much better. So straight away id say you’re going to be a better racer and have less of a chance of getting dropped on hills.

I’ve had doubts when solely looking at my FTP, but when I’ve seen friends struggling after 3 hours and I’m still going well i realise FTP is too one dimensional in term of measuring cycling ability.

For me TR is the coach. listen to the podacst and advice on here and keep pluggin away.

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When I was a youngster in my 20s, I raced for 6-7 years with the last block being 5 years straight. The first year - get dropped in the first 10 races. But year over year, I got better and better. It’s a long term proposition. You have to be genetically gifted to go from cat 5 to 3 in one season. Yeah, I saw a few guys do that when I was racing. Typically they stalled out when they landed in the higher category.

Here’s the way I see it:

  1. Keep on doing what you are doing. Read the forum. Read all the books. Learn the principles of training. Improve little by little. This could be a 3-5+ year process or maybe you don’t learn anything because you aren’t the studious type. You are the ‘just want to ride’ type.

The DIY approach can be fun if you like the journey more than the endpoint.

  1. Get a coach that teaches you assuming you want to learn. He’ll probably turn 5 years of self learning into 2 years and get you optimized at every point along the way. So I think if coaching is affordable to your budget and you like to learn and have the time to train seriously, the right coach could save you an enormous amount of time and propel you faster along your training arc.
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This is a brilliant explanation. Succintly:

  1. DIY if learning about how the process works interests you, but expect it to take a long time to get it right (yes, 3-5 years or more!).

  2. Get a coach if you’re not interested in how the process works, or just want to ride/train and get faster. The single biggest thing a coach can do for you is to eliminate the learning curve that self-coaching incurs.

Many people who coach are athletes that spent a long time making mistakes on themselves first! Ask me how I know… :laughing:

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FWIW, there is a potentially valid space between DIY and full coach.

The last few years when racing regularly and seriously (*) I self coached. But had extra eyeballs on my plan and a few experienced coaches to confer with. Some exchanges were very casual and just spitballing and bouncing of ideas and learning from each other. Other times I would want a more formal interaction and would purchase a few hours of time from a very high level guy whom I know well and trust. We are friends but I wanted him to know when I needed his professional services and that I valued those enough to pay for it.

Obviously this approach won’t work for everyone because you need to know and trust the guys you are interacting with and be committed to the self coach approach. But have noticed that some of the well known and experienced coaches are offering consults in addition to full on monthly relationships. For folks who think they have a solid plan, don’t want or need a full-time coach, but who want some feedback and checks, this is an option to consider.

(*) By serious, I mean I was trying to maximize my results and be as good as I could be given life constraints. There is no chance anyone cares about my cat 3 50+ masters results or that I’d ever have results to talk about - LOL

-Mark

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Some coaching companies have offerings in this space.

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That’s what I was pointing out, yes. I’ve seen it under “consulting” which some of our colleagues might not notice when looking at options with coaches. Even if not listed, asking is free.

Often remarkable how helpful a second set of eyeballs can be.

Some coaching companies have subscriptions priced in the $25-$40/month ranges. In addition many offer one-time consulting.

I am with you in that I am a terrible crit racer, I have a relatively ok ftp and w/kg but I am just not a good crit racer. Bike handling and comfort in the group are far from strong points for me and things I need to improve upon. That said of course I want to further improve FTP and my w/kg but I need a ton of work on the more crit specific skills

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