Anyone had hands on a Notio or similar device? I followed the development for a while then moved to other things and away from TTs.
The arrival on Jumbo Visma using a similar probe caught me eye.
I’m waiting for mine - decided that on balance I could get more watts from a Notio than a 2nd hand disc wheel. I’m hoping that it makes testing a bit easier, more reliable, and opens up some new test circuits.
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I’d be interested in hearing how you get on. Having had an eye on this market for a while (since the Newton), it’s been tough to develop a reliable meter.
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Been reading up as much as I can since ordering it, I’m really glad to have had the experience from doing Virtual Elevation / Chung method testing, as I think it helps to develop good protocols and testing techniques, which still count for a lot even with a device.
I’m slightly frustrated by the thought of the calibration protocol. 1.5k -3k flat (<2% grade), consistent wind, no corners traffic free course to do an out and back on. Calibration is needed every time the front end changes.
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Better set the alarm clock for a 3am start!
Can you get to a velodrome?
Soon… though we’ll have to see if there is any leeway with the bikes they’ll allow.
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Please do post your experiences - maybe create a thread just for that purpose? Am sure there will be a number of data and aero geeks interested in following along.
Good luck and fingers crossed!
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There are some discrepancies between Aero coach and Bike Rolling resistance in the data for tubes.
When I’ve done some testing on rollers I’ve not been massively convinced by the results. The curves I get are non linear, meaning at a higher speed there is either aero drag, and or bearing drag being introduced. I was testing up to 70kph though.
Bike Rolling Resistance however, use a standard wheel and slower speed on a test rig with checker plate rather than a smooth drum. I had a brief email exchange, and they run bearings without seals to try to minimise the drag.
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I tried super stacked hands yesterday - and sadly it wasn’t very fast for me, about 15W slower.
I think it 's probably due to a big gap between the extensions and my forearm - I could feel a lot of unstable air movement there during the test.
It’s good that you have some prior experience with aerotesting. Anecdotally, riders with prior experience have more realistic expectations about what they need to do in order to get good estimates. Some users were hoping for a device that would turn regular rides into wind tunnel tests. It’s more like, even without a sensor you can get good results with good experimental technique and pristine conditions; the sensor relieves you of the need for pristine conditions but it doesn’t relieve you of the requirement for good experimental technique.
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Still waiting for it to turn up…
But there really isn’t much good info from them available on good testing technique at the moment, which is disappointing. I’m hoping for something better in the box when it turns up. Otherwise I’ve had to use good to find various PDFs from their closed bike fitters site on technique and installation.
Well shoot, sorry to hear that! Yeah, when I stack my hands, I can feel the airflow go from turbulent into my torso to basically no detectable airflow. If there’s one thing that I learned from aero testing at ERO Sports, it’s that one-size-does-not-fit-all! I was surprised to learn that things like gloves, a single vs. double chainring, aero socks, and other things don’t necessarily decrease CdA meaningfully in all cases. Hopefully the consumer-available aero sensors will get good enough (and cheap enough!) that we can all do our own testing before too long… best of luck with your progress!
Notio first time use.
I took it out this morning before work and there was a fair bit of faffing learning the app / calibration etc which took up valuable testing time. This was followed by 2 baseline runs to get some data and learn the tools.
Notio came in with 0.260, Virtual Elevation: 0.27, my windsock 0.29 / 0.27 so that’s nice to see.
I think I could get better comparison in the app possibly, but after the calibration run something happened (either me or the app) and I could only do “training run” or “Calibration run” and not an “Aero test”.
Interestingly the Garmin field is so so to watch while riding - it struggles to differentiate between aero changes and elevation changes - but the averages at the end of the lap seem good.
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I’ve been using an Aerolab sensor which has been interesting.
Counter-intuitively we widened the armrests on one riders base bar and it dropped the CdA. Perhaps the wider base allowed the shoulders to get the head in a better position than just going ever narrower and lower.
I’ve become more and more anti-car as I get older, and consider their environmental impact and the dangerous close passes I’ve had as a rider but now they interrupt an aero test and my data I’ve become even more scornful of them.
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[quote=“jnye131, post:53, topic:60849”]
it struggles to differentiate between aero changes and elevation changes[/quote]
Precision and accuracy in gradient or elevation is key to getting good real-time estimates.
Laps make the estimation much (much much) easier, but most devices can’t know ahead of time that your intention is to do laps. The best they can do in the meantime is to average over a fixed time interval (like, the last 30 seconds or so) rather than lap, which is a fixed distance interval with the extra constraint that you know the net elevation over the lap is zero. I think this may have implications for some of the sensors on the market for how they might “prefer” to do their aero tests.
In this instance the lap is a lap on the Garmin. I think the minimum distance for it is a kilometre.
Interestingly I got a negative CdA during the ride, I’m guessing as it happened up hill after a pedestrian underpass with no pedalling there was some confusion about the kinetic energy from the previous dip.